Jan
14

Artists Back XXX Genre / Roundtable Discussion

January 14, 2011 - By Trigger  //  Random Notes  //  234 Comments

Alright look. I know that some of you have already grown tired of the back and forths talking about what to call music and how to manage it, and rather we all spend more time focusing on the actual music itself. I agree, and that will continue to be the main focus of Saving Country Music. But right now, I do not think there is a bigger issue facing the music we all love than this proposed XXX genre. I have already made my initial thoughts known, and had many critical things to say, some of which have been resolved with further dialogue and action, some that have not.

I personally have yet to sign the XXX petition, but the more I have been thinking about this, the more I think the important task I have is to inform all of YOU, the fans, so you can make your own decisions, without having them filtered through my opinions. It doesn’t mean that I won’t raise criticism or offer praise, but YOU should decide for yourself on this thing, irrespective of my beliefs, and irrespective of your beliefs of Shooter Jennings, Hank III, or any other artist. As I’ve been saying, judge this on the merit of the idea itself.

In that spirit, on Wednesday I conveined a Saving Country Music Roundtable comprised of me The Triggerman, Jashie P of Outlaw Radio Chicago, and Reverend Nix of Stink Finger Radio/The Mojo Medicine Show, and we discussed in detail the pros and cons. I think a lot of good information about this came out, and I encourage everyone to listen when they have time. As well as check out the robust comments section of the previous article where Shooter Jennings and Adam Sheets, the originators of this idea, refute some of my criticisms and go into further detail about the idea.

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Listen or download Roundtable #4 – The XXX Genre

And speaking of Shooter, he just conducted an 1 1/2 hour interview with Outlaw Radio about all of this, that we will be airing on SCM LIVE on Monday at 7:30 Central and the chat room will be open. For those that cannot make it live, we will archive the interview and transcribe the big points, and that will be posted later that evening .

A lot of people are wondering what Hank III has to say about all this. We have reached out to him, and as soon as we have a statement/interview/whatever, I will bring it to you, positive or negative. I am committed to BOTH SIDES being able to speak their mind about how they feel about XXX in the spirit that healthy, respectful discourse is good regardless of where this idea ends up, or who ultimately ends up being involved.

And speaking of what the artists themselves feel on this matter, here is a list of the ones who have publicly backed XXX so far:

  • Shooter Jennings (obviously)
  • Scott H Biram
  • Jason Isbell (formerly of Drive By Truckers)
  • Rhett Miller (Old 97′s)
  • John Carter Cash
  • Mojo Nixon
  • Lukas Nelson (Willie’s son – Promise of the Real)
  • Dash Rip Rock
  • The North Mississippi All Stars
  • Whitey Morgan & The 78′s
  • Jocephus & The George Jonestown Massacre
  • Tommy Townsend (former member of Waylon’s Band & Waymore Outlaw)
  • Kevin Sekhani, Jerry Castle, and Johanna Divine

Also Shooter and blogger Adam Sheets sent me statements to accompany the Roundtable, since they were not there to comment.

Adam Sheets: “Most people who listened to “outlaw country” in the ’70s were decent law-abiding citizens, who didn’t like the polished sounds of Nashville at that time and certainly weren’t outlaw. Likewise, XXX, whether you associate it with moonshine or porn, is the harder-edged alternative to Nashville and the top 40 and the name represents that.”

Shooter: “xxx is not referring to any other style of music. It is an answer to AAA (Adult Album Alternative) and the moonshine reference is not an association with alcohol as much as a tip of the hat to deep rooted antique southern culture. For now its catchy and it represents something completely new”

234 Comments to “Artists Back XXX Genre / Roundtable Discussion”

  • And the ball gets rolling… I’m interested to hear what III has to say about this…

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    • You and me both, and we’re not alone.

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  • Nice guys, I always enjoy the Roundtables.

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  • I like the idea a lot. It’s what we all do, on a larger scale. I just want to know more. And see the band list grow.

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  • Just finished listening to the roundtable on this…good stuff. I agree this is something that needs to be done to get the word out…but I must reiterate III’s involvement, he’s the figurehead already in my eyes.

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  • While listening to the roundtable the name hit me. No one wants country or southern in the title & it should be a name we all know & love…Muddy Roots

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    • At the least Muddy Roots is becoming more of a useful name to describe the country/bluesy/rootsy mix. I’m just not sure its epicenter sonically is the same epicenter the originators of XXX have in mind.

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      • Then what is the “sonic epicenter”?
        Why should we need to buy into any created name for anything? Shouldn’t names just evolve from use?
        Who owns this?
        Who stands to make bank on it?
        Where will it “be”?

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        • I think the sonic epicenter for XXX has yet to be determined, but the one for Muddy Roots has. That is what I think is difficult.

          I think it is a good point that the best names usually evolve from use. I certainly didn’t name myself “The Triggerman.” And if I had, it probably wouldn’t have caught on.

          And who is going to make bank on it? Hopefully the musicians. I know some think all of this is irrelevent to the music, but Leroy Virgil just had a kid, I saw Possessed by Paul James last night, and he has two kids. Shooter has kids. Keith at Hillgrass Bluebilly records has a pregnant wife. THESE PEOPLE NEED TO MAKE MONEY SO THEY CAN CONTINUE TO MAKE THE MUSIC THAT WE LOVE.

          I am against the money machine controlling music as much as anybody, but pooling resources and finding a little financial success is not a bad thing.

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          • I hear you on this and I couldn’t agree more. I appreciate your addressing my concerns. I was once in a conversation with one of the artists involved with this thing and he spoke very resentfully about people OTHER than the artists making a buck. I thought about that and I tried to understand his resentment. If there is just a small amount to go around, people get tricky fighting over what’s there…if there’s a lot to go around, people get tricky fighting over what’s there…get my point?

            I hope and pray (that’s a stretch as I don’t really believe in God) that this is something that yields benefit to the artists…that they are able to continue making their music and that the music isn’t compromised by the $$$ in their eyes. I think they do it now because they love it. I would hope that never changes.

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  • This MONDAY, special night and time! Outlaw Radio #127 with Shooter Jennings. Wednesday will still go as planned, but this is an episode that I want released ASAP.

    As the promo for Black Ribbons goes, “Forget everything you know about Shooter Jennings”

    This will be an episode NOT TO MISS. (capitol letters means it’s important)

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  • I think the concept of XXX genre is great. It will put an umbrella over a bunch of artists, making more of one collective mesurable unit. At first thought of the title, XXX, it seems a little hokey (but, you can’t please everybody). But I think one of its biggest issues is it that it doesn’t mean anything- musically speaking. If somebody heard in or out of context- they would have no immediate idea of what is being discussed. It is better than ‘Alternative Country’. And ‘Outlaw Counrty’ is good but does’nt immediately fit the bill for a lot of the artists.

    What about some recording labels- any of them interested in the title. It would have to be pushed from all angles to gain any traction- BLoodshot, Century, Farmaggedon. Would need a lot of people talking.

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    • I thought my discussion with Nix on this topic in the roundtable shed some light of how we could maybe resolve this. Instead of saying “country” and people thinking you mean Rascal Flatts, you would say “XXX Country.” Instead of saying ‘blues” and making someone think of BB King and Mustang Sally, you’d say “XXX Blues” And on an on from there. That is an interesting idea that I think could work.

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      • And I totally agreed with that part of the roundtable (and with most of the rest of it, for that matter).

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  • This is the first time I’m posting on this site…although I’ve read it for some time. First off Trigerman I really enjoyed this discussion. Anytime you’d like to be in an issue of Sound In The Signals Magazine we’d be more than happy to interview you. I also wanted to make a quick announcement on here that Bob Wayne will be on the cover of our Feb. issue and it will be available to read for free online!

    On the XXX genre I have this to say. I like Shooter and have enjoyed all of his albums to some extent. My big thing is that it feels like Shooter is just rushing to do something extreme. His new album was cool, in my opinion, but it was a drastic change and I feel like this genre is created to emphasize that drastic change. Whether that’s good or bad I can’t 100% say yet.

    I do however think it’s great that he is working with smaller acts and trying to get them more exposure. It just seems like this genre is irrelevant and people will inevitably call these acts roots, country, outlaw, blues, etc… and the XXX tag will solely be for the die-hard fan. I don’t see the masses catching onto it. The title needs work. I totally agree with some of the points made in the discussion over what people might interpret the title as.

    I feel like more than anything the artists that are in this underground movement need to be respected and appreciated for what they are doing for the music scene and the genre title in my opinion will turn people off rather than interest them.

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    • This might be a fair assessment of Shooter, but as I’ve tried to do from the beginning, I would urge for people to look at the heart of the idea and judge that independently to the fact that Shooter’s name is associated with it. I know this will be hard for many, but Shooter has said himself on this very website that he does not want to be the leader of this. And I personally have said a lot of the specifics felt rushed when it was presented, but the question for me is: If there’s some things we dislike do we trash the whole idea, or do we try to work to resolve those problems, offer criticism and advice to make it stronger, and then see if it flies?

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      • I see what you are saying. I’ll give it the benefit of the doubt. I would like to see some of the artist from the underground gain some good exposure and have the ability to keep creating solid music. One thing is for sure it has people talking and spreading the word about the artists working on this and that’s really interesting.

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  • Hank Williams III probably won’t back XXX, because he had that feud with Shooter. I personally think it’s a good idea because it might get these underground artists more access to the mainstream.

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    • Not sure why it is taking me so long to dig this up, but this is Hank III talking about Shooter from an interview in late May of this year:

      http://www.savingcountrymusic.com/big-news-from-hank-iii-interviews

      “Jashie P: You’ve had your past with Shooter Jennings. Have you had a chance to listen to his new album by chance?

      Hank III: Naw man, I haven’t kept up with any of that really. My 8-10 year run of talking shit I’m sure is close to being over. He’s not as green as he was. It’s just one of those things man. “

      Also if you really want to geek out and read how the whole “C*unt in country” vs. “Put the O Back in Country.” was an exercise in futility because Carlene Carter figured that out years ago, excuse my poor writing and weird formatting, this was early on folks but it’s a good read.

      http://www.savingcountrymusic.com/shooter-jennings-vs-shelton-hank-iii-part-2

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  • I still say Shooter is cracking under the weight of his father’s legend and that this seems forced.Like he’s trying to prove he can create a new genre or style or something instead of leading by example with his music which unfortunately is all over the place.Waylon once stated that no matter what instruments he used on his records or what type of music he played it would always come out country…Shooter or anyone else for that matter has yet to come and make a statement like that or any proclaiming their loyalty and affinity to COUNTRY MUSIC.PERIOD.and that’s what it’s going to take..A Gram Parsons type with an actual love for the music and history-and the Nudie suit to match…until that happens this XXX stuff is a joke to me…

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    • One thing that people should appreciate is this is not Shooter’s plan to save country music. This has just as much to do with rock and blues as country. I’ve always fought this fight on two fronts: save the roots and traditions of country music, and offer support to the up and coming artists, many of which fuse rock, blues and country.I have been saying for a long time we’ve needed a new name to describe these bands that are not necessarily true country, but still embody the roots better than Nashville. This is an issue autonomous to all the crap going on in Nashville, and fighting against that.

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  • I don’t like the name, now you have AAA and XXX and YYY and ZZZ? I mean what? The concept is fine, great, been in the make for a long, long time. Forget everything you know about Shooter? That’s some bad, bad PR.

    Great blog Triggerman. I’m definitely interested in what transpires.

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    • I know the statement is “Forget everything you know about Shooter” but perhaps a more accurate statement is “Forget everything you THINK you know about Shooter.”

      For my money, he is a very creative person. And as he said in his response on the other XXX article, he gets motivation out of taking risks and trying different things. He certainly has done that. And due to that, those that are not close with him, me included, start to “think” we know things about him. Good and bad, when we really don’t know anything and are just guessing.
      Denise, perhaps you are friends with Shooter, and my statements don’t apply, but from reading these blogs, there definitely some people that rip him based on the ideas that don’t come directly from Shooter.

      I am excited to hear this interview.

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      • “And due to that, those that are not close with him, me included, start to “think” we know things about him. Good and bad, when we really don’t know anything and are just guessing.”

        I am in 100% agreement with that. I don’t think that anybody who has had a conversation with him would have anything bad to say about him. They still may not like all of his music, of course, but they would respect the man and what he stands for in regards to trying new things. (My definition of “selling out” is a bit different than most. I consider it rehashing your hits to please the fans at the expense of artistry.)

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    • This was an obvious knock at the promotion done by Rocket Science.

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  • In the words of Groucho Marx, “I would never join a club that would have me as member.”
    A true outlaw is without genre or title. To put yourself in a genre is the same as sayin “I am a Methodist” or “I am a democrat” or “I belong to this cub, and if you want to join it you need to follow these guidelines.”
    It labels you that and that alone and that is where you remain coralled thus subject to producing that sort of music and portraying the image that is associated with it.
    If I desire to write and record a country record as I have done I do it.
    If I deside to write and record a punk album as I have done I do that also.
    I have absolutely no idea how to label my music through the years. I am gad to call it cowpunk but once the words escape my mouth after being asked to describe it I feel like I have sold myself and my music out by putting it in a little box.
    I don’t think we need any more “genres” decided by the coorporate mindset.
    Even if it is XXX which would umbrella mainly great shit kicking music, it still puts in on that shelf and markets mainly that audience and labels it mainly that sot of music..and who decides that?

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    • agreed, very well said.

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    • I agree too. But Jeremy, another musician from Whitey Morgan & the 78′s commented on the last article about this that musicians need something, a term, to delineate themselves from the crowd and give people at least some idea of the music they can expect from them. Like I said in my mono-genre, micro-genre article, the traditional corporate-named 12 genres are becoming more irrelevant by the day, but the reason they were there in the first place was to help people understand the type of music they could expect before buying a CD or turning on a radio station or going to a concert. I don’t want to pigeon hole anybody’s music, and at some point you have to assume at least a little effort and intelligence from the fan. But if you want your music out in front of the most people, trying to tie it to a work or phrase usually helps.

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    • THANK YOU PETE.
      Maybe you will be heard. I guess it takes a man to say some things that a lady can’t.

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      • Or perhaps, it takes a man to get other man to listen…

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        • men…

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      • I don’t like the characterization that we don’t listen to women around here. I think you’ve been raising some good points KAK.

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        • Sorry. I just feel like I talk into air sometimes. Thanks for the hat tip, Trig.

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  • I signed the petition. I don’t like the name “XXX”, but there were too many bands I love that don’t get the attention they deserve on that list, including some that were not there initially. That shows they are paying attention to what we say here. If XXX helps some of the little bands out there get some exposure, then here’s to it.

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  • Firstly, somebody at SCM needs to review Mr. Berwick’s latest recording, Give it Time, if they haven’t already.

    The XXX standardization is just a way of gaining a larger audience which Shooter Jennings has always sought after. Nothing wrong with that, but frankly Shooter’s stuff has always left me cold. Same with Jason Isbell, since he left the Truckers.

    It’d be better if XXX replaced AAA because Isbell, Jennings, ect are far more talented than the current batch of losers on the dial, and I’d rather hear them when seated in my dentist’s waiting room, than any contemporary or alternative pop artist in the mainstream.

    That said, they’ll never sit at the cool kid’s table again.

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    • Pete’s album has been sitting near or on the top of my review stack for a month now, and stuff like this keeps keeping me from it. Hopefully I can get to it soon.

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  • I’ve signed it. Too much good can come from this not to throw my support behind it.

    I still want to see more done. I want to know what’s going to happen to our podcasts, and radio shows that we have now. And I’d like to see more artists get involved in it as well.

    But right now, It’s got my support.

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  • Miller and I do not see eye to eye on this and he is done with our conversation but here is my concern:

    If you intentionally create a genre of music that can be branded and sold, you will eventually become yet another genre of commoditized music. I am attracted to things “underground” partially for the quality, but partially for the “undergroundness”. The minute I hear this stuff on the radio regularly, I’ll be disinclined to choose to listen to it much more. Does this make me a music snob? Not entirely. I choose to listen to music in the mainstream many times because I like the music. But I don’t want to go to shows to see these bands live. I don’t want to pay cash to sit in a huge venue and not talk to the artist after the show. I don’t want “backstage passes” and “VIP seating”. I don’t want to see their name in advertisements. I want grassroots, I want intimacy, I want to fund their music by paying to see shows and purchasing merch at those shows. I want truly ALTERNATIVE music…music that is not a part of the capitalist, corporate machine that controls all other music genres. I want my music to be a part of an alternative to the oligarchy of control – both economic and ideological – that our current socio/political/economic system has over all of our lives.

    If “my” musicians (those I currently like and listen to) join this thing, I won’t hate on them, but I will feel a bit apprehensive that they are signing on to be a part of something that is brandable and marketable, and I won’t like that.

    Power in the hands of a few is power that will eventually be misused.

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    • I completely understand this sentiment KAK, but you can’t let your music listening be such a selfish pursuit. These concerns have come up over many years on this site. Hank III, Shooter, Whitey Morgan & The 78′s are never going to be selling out football stadiums, and I don’t know if they would pursue that even if they could. What they do want is a place at the table, and FOOD on the table by making a living wage plying their craft. Shooter and III are able to do that, but right now many bands are NOT–including ones Shooter put on his list voluntarily–so they quit, forgo touring or putting out new material, forgo starting families, live without health insurance, etc. etc. This is a travesty. Yes, I like the intimate setting and interaction too, but I also like progress.

      And I think it can also be selfish to say “fuck it” to the masses. They deserve good music too, and I think if the education system wasn’t letting us down by eradicating art appreciation, more would be. And how about the future generations that could appreciate this art as well. If we can’t at least make a little noise, how will we be significant enough to where the future generations will know about us?

      And I don’t see any proposition to this XXX thing at this point that involves making big piles of money and handing them to a select few. Yes, this is the usual progression of these type of things, but the music business is a completely different beast these days. I’m sure XXX would cycle just like all music movements, but I think that is almost a given when going in. Nobody expects any music movement to last until eternity.

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      • All I can say to that is amen.

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      • That’s the point I’ve been trying to make KAK. Triggerman is just better with words than me.

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      • Miller, you are fine with words…
        Trig, I understand much better now. I do not believe that I am being selfish, however, I am suspicious of ANYTHING big…food, business, music, etc…I cringe to think of hearing the artists in question on canned music when I am reluctantly shopping in a mall or something.

        You and Miller have made the point well: this isn’t about scads of cash, its about decent levels of exposure. I don’t begrudge folks success. I just want it to be THEIR success and not the success of a record label or some other corporate entity.

        The other thing I like about this “movement” or “scene” is that people all look different. Sure there are similarities: tattoos, jeans, etc…but there is nothing homogenous about it. This thrills me. I don’t want that to disappear because of a concerted effort to “unite” things.

        I’ll put my trust in you boys. I’m older and jaded…as well as wiser ;)…I will have faith and not resist. I just wanted you to hear me.

        A friend posted this on FB the other day. You know I come from the world of punk. I think Rollins says what he says well here. I wish a similar fate for our folks:

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6zVUvmkyvA

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        • I just want to clarify that when I say “record label” I’m thinking more along the lines of what III has struggled with with Curb. Bloodshot, HBE, Farmageddon…these are far more grassroots and “authentic” and sincere than what I am speaking of. I put them in the category with the artists…

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        • I don’t think look has anything to do with anything. I don’t have tattoos.

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          • Neither do I…but I think look has EVERYTHING to do with it. Merchandising is rooted in “look”. People cultivate their look. Creating a genre of music will ultimately create a look associated with that music. It has happened with every other genre of music in history…

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    • I totally know where you’re coming from with this post KAK, but I have to say I see Triggerman’s point too. REAL country music just isn’t marketable enough to become huge again. But artists like Hellbound Glory, .357 etc deserve to make a decent living doing what they do. Otherwise they might not do it anymore, and then we all lose. We shouldn’t lose site of the issues you bring up, but personally don’t think they are evident with this XXX thing.

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      • Sounds so similar to Muddy Roots. If y’all want to merge, then merge . . .

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  • Couple things:

    1) There seems to be a lot of concern that this is all about Shooter, promoting his own music, and maybe his ego, or maybe even so he can make money. I have raised the ego concerns myself, but play devil’s advocate for just a second. If this thing blows up in Shooter’s face, or even worse, if it gets big, and THEN blows up in Shooter’s face, then he has just as much to lose as he does to gain here. It would only emphasize the criticisms that he is all over the map, or as Kenneth said above: “cracking under the weight of his father’s legend.” So this goes both ways.

    2) I want to see some Shooter fans here commenting. I know there’s Yahoo groups and message boards full of them. They come running any time I am critical of Shooter, I want to see what they have to say when I give his ideas an open forum. We need their input to have a healthy discussion here, and I’m surprised the usual suspects haven’t shown up.

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  • I love all the passion this has brought out in people. I think that is the best thing that has happened here.

    Its part of what I dig about this site, and about interacting with people on here. There are strong sentiments in defending things we care alot about. Country music is the theme. Everybody seems to have slightly different definitions of exactly what that means. That’s fine—music is a very personal thing. And part of what is so great about a live show, is that people congregate at these performances share a similar passion together. That creates an energy that if it were in a bottle and could be sold, the person who owned it would control the greatest amount of $$$ on the planet. Its that addictive.

    My hope for this, and I think its been expressed at some point, is that a festival that involves these somewhat like minded artists with diverse sounds would have a similar impact that Lollapalooza had when it was in its original touring form. I went to the first of those, in 1991, at Pine Knob in Detroit area. It didn’t sell out. It had industrial bands, goth bands, pop bands, rock bands and even rap. It was the first time I’d paid $27 for a ticket. The artists from those first two tours went on to much greater success than they ever would have seen without it. Some of them(NIN, Pearl Jam, etc)are still vital in some regards, whether or not they matter to us in particular.

    A XXX festival could have this sort of effect, I believe. I thought about this throughout the last few days, and I think that’s the best avenue that this could go. That is only my opinion, but, I do think its an educated, experienced well thought out one.

    Think of it…Shooter, Drive By Truckers, Blackberry Smoke, Wayne Hancock, Whitey Morgan and the 78s, .357 String Band, Dale Watson…or whatever lineup you dream up, tour together on a package. Diverse enough bands to draw a varied crowd, yet similar enough to work together…it would expand each groups career…and then repackage it the next year with a new crop and watch it build. It worked for Lollapalooza for about the first 4 years, and then it just became to big. That wouldn’t be awful either. That means for a cycle of time, we’d hear a different flavor nationally on the radio and on TV–and these bands would have lucrative careers. Something fans, even if they feel like they are losing a bit of personal joy and interaction, should hope happens for their favorite bands. Its not why we do it, but it would help all involved to continue doing so for much longer into the future.

    Everything is a cycle, which has also been mentioned many times. I’ve also mentioned that I believe we’re on the verge of a new cycle. A collective effort such as this could make this happen, or at least help it along.

    That’s my hope. There are other avenues…this is just one man’s thought.

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    • I’m with you, brother. Similarly, Woodstock had a good mix of rock, folk, and R&B artists and let’s not forget that the earliest rock shows would often feature rockabilly, doo-wop, R&B, and pop on one bill.

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      • Please come to Muddy Roots. I believe that there is a special thing going on there. Community…cooperation…unity…creative freedom…etc.

        More festivals? awesome. I just applaud what Chris Johnson and Jason Galaz et al have been doing for the past 5 years and don’t wish for that to be overlooked.

        Cheers.
        KAK

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        • I’d love to come. I’ll look into it, but like everything else these days, money is the key issue.

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          • None of us here overlook Deep Blues or Muddy Roots. Those two guys pour there hearts into what the do. If I had the money, they’d be a fest here in Chicago as well! That has always been a dream.

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        • Fest in Chicago? You should talk to Brian K. Reese over at Big Rock Candy Mountain…he wants to do the same. I have talked to him about it as well, although I am not near Chicago…..but I would figure the more festivals (even one day, the better)

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          • I have to say this out loud; It has already been touched upon. This whole idea is nothing new. There are a lot of folks who have been doing their damnedest to support and bring light to this large, all encompassing group of Roots musicians. Including, obviously, the fellas of this round table. I love the idea of music festivals for all of us, point in case, Muddy Roots Festival. I think the more festivals the better, but why would we want to call a festival after the genre name itself? XXX Festival? Wouldn’t that essentially be the same as saying, Blues Festival, Country Festival, Bluegrass Festival. When you make XXX the name of our genre of music it becomes generic.

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  • As I’ve gone over these posts I was thinking what is the greatest benefit of a movement such as this. Considering I’m a lazy pothead, the conclusion was easy. If there was a big umbrella that all of these artists can be thrown under, GREAT… the easier to find a similar musical mainline the better….Meaning I won’t have to (but I still will) listen to Outlaw Country on Sirius for hours on end trying to find the next Old Crow Medicine Show, Hank III or Ryan Bingham…I also hate trying to explain to people the genre of music is my favorite, as you can’t say Country (can’t have someone mistake me for a Tim McGraw fan), Alt-Country sounds faggy and I’m on board with the people that don’t like XXX (I get it, but others won’t)…..
    Anyways….now I’m rambling…

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  • I just think XXX is hokeyness at full fluff, and never cared for Shooter. Although, I respect Whitey, and SHB will carry anything he’s involved with, but I think the music should be respected and not further confused, I am fighting EVERYDAY for community. I sum all of ours up very easily, Hillgrass Bluebilly. I will challenge XXX with HB vision any day of the week on the stage, with my hands in my pocket and my backed turned. just sayin….

    There is too much exclusion with this. Although Shooter grabs the late 20′s crowd, a lot of them working in their educated field (as well), would make for very nice blends all in all… . Shooter and Biram has toured together 5 or so years back… (always splitting apart in Phoenix back in those days mind you, and per our request/demand of “No Shooter”)… just theme a tour and make that work… maybe even xxx tour… but it ends… and is remembered…. and can be keepsaked

    But XXX will be one more thing I feel I have to contend with, rather than join hands with… unite with… present with…. create with. But then again, I am a rootsy mother fucker by ear, even snobbish. As far as the blend with rock, ok. Go sign Glambilly out of San Antonio (decieving, hardly almost, with near hit with band 10 City Run in 06′ 07) and go do your thang…… on THAT side of the fucking yard. I am actually enforcing liveby’s to da da daaaaa save country music.

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    • See, this is the BIG dilemma. Hillgrass Bluebilly is an important cog in the wheel, and they are against this, or at least won’t participate. How many other entities that just need to be brought up to speed will come out against it? And if Saving Country Music endorses XXX, then does that mean that I won’t be accepted by these other entities that won’t? Can I endorse XXX AND Hillgrass Bluebilly, and do my best to focus on the music, instead of the divisions that mark the scenes behind the artists I love and that I’m trying to give proper coverage to?

      That’s why I haven’t signed on to this, nor have I said that I will not sign. There’s many more shoes left to fall. Though I have a sinking feeling that as time goes on, this will be one of those issues where I am somewhere in the middle, but the polarized on both sides will incessantly kick me in the nuts for being a puppet of the other. Like with Jamey Johnson, where I’m called a motherfucking faggot for being a hater of him in one comment, then the very next comment, someone says I’m giving him WAY too much credit and Saving Country Music is selling out to the mainstream.

      I refuse to fight. I’m keeping my powder dry for Music Row. I’ll be like OB1, standing with my light saber straight in front of me, and if you strike me down, I will only become more powerful!

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      • If anyone looked at you any different for signing a petition that is trying to help underground artists, than that is silly. Do what you want Trig.

        You shouldn’t worry about who is with it and who is not. Keith is a good guy with an opinion which I respect. He is a fighting soldier is this scene. But, i am sure he looks at me no different for signing the petition. I will always support Hillgrass Blueilly no matter what. We are all in this to support these artists. Differences’ of opinion will happen, but it can’t break a bond.

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        • …and I will always support Jashie, Outlaw, Saving & Trig. You are right, I will not NOT like anyone, because of something else they support that I may not. The idea aint bad, but I will be the 1st to put a stop to a “movement” that aint with me or I with them. If they start with XXX tours and/or a festival, it could grow on its own. THEN we arent losing any fans, interested sponsors, airtime etc…. xxx (symbol) resembles no faith, drugs, rape, deadbeat dads, not welcome,PORN, solicited sex, alcohol made to destroy, …ok…maybe that is a bit much, maybe not. A man that walks a line and plows his own course is a maverick, unmarked & meaningful (imagine Johnny Cash reading about XXX) The mens just need to have a look in their eye and a song in their throat. Start there. But XXX is 1 up a dirty sanchez. Can ANYONE imagine the bullshit one would have to put up with THIS agencies booking agents? Do we, as promotion companies get to pay an extra $100 + because of the XXX endorsement? What about the shit ass merch and XXX flag, Hey Kids… go look “XXX country music” on google images and tell me what you find (http://media.photobucket.com/image/xxx%20country%20music/HipKidsEatQueerCulture/20070316_1334522.jpg)….. Americana, done.

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          • That was so well said Keith I’m not sure what else to say other than thank you for conveying the image in the proper way. A maverick does plow his way, stays the course and thinks about the implications down the road. XXX is not the image JC would have liked. Nor Hank. If it’s about the music and supporting the musicians that’s one thing most everyone would agree with. But Shooter said it himself: xxx is a catchy theme. I personally ain’t lookin’ for catchy. I’m looking for honesty in the strings. Escape from the pain. Joy in the art. You can leave catchy to the glaring lights of hollyweird and trashville.

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          • How would Johnny Cash feel about XXX? I don’t know and assuming you didn’t know the man, neither do you. But I think it’s telling that both his son and his godson are on board.

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          • Assuming what a dead man would think about something is both absurd, and borderline disrespectful.

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          • And Hillgrass Bluebilly has artists that sing about murder, suicide, drinking, and drugs. And they’re great, but you can’t try and take the moral high ground when that laundry list of what bad “XXX” can stand for is featured in your own artists songs.

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          • Keith may be taking the point to an extreme, but I think it is a fair and valid argument, and one I raised myself initially and continue to. Does that mean we should throw the XXX ‘baby’ out with the ‘bathwater’ bad name? I don’t know. Maybe dropping the name down to two X’s or raise it up to four X’s will get it out of the bad connotations that people have with ‘XXX,’ but it still won’t resolve his deeper concerns about the fundamental issues that might arise with the formation of a new entity. One of the reasons grass roots are so effective is because they are deep and true and hard to kill. However it can also make deconstruction and re-alignment difficult.

            On Friday night I was hanging out with Keith in a bar in Austin, watching two Hillgrass bands. I stopped down writing a review/uploading videos to join this discussion. Possessed by Paul James, a Hillgrass artist, was voluntarily put on the XXX list as a potential artist. Scott Biram, who is a member of the Hillgrass family, is the first name on that artist list. These roots run deep. And in both directions.

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          • But, again, I do not see any problem whatsoever with the name. Think for a minute, not what Johnny Cash would think of the name, but what would Hank 3 think of the name (maybe what would he think if Shooter wasn’t on board). Would a guy who uses as much profanity in his songs and even led a “Fuck Curb” campaign, really give a shit about being associated with something called XXX? Give me a fuckin’ break.

            And also, as I have already pointed out, most “outlaw” country fans have never spent one day in prison and you can apply the same argument to the “dirty blues,” “stoner rock,” or any number of other labels that seem to have worked out just fine.

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          • I have to agree that I will NEVER tell anyone I listen to XXX anything. I am a mother. I am a college professor. I am the faculty sponsor of an organization that raises funds for rape victims in Uganda. I would be humiliated to tell people I go to “a lot of XXX shows”…being a grown up sucks but it comes with a price, unfortunately.

            XXX doesn’t ever make me think of moonshine. It makes me think of sex.

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          • I think it’s awesome the response is so massive on this thing. However, if a bunch of underground country “nerds” (and let’s face it, that’s what we are) can’t agree on something as benign as a name, how in the hell are people going to jump on board who are nominal fans. People on the fringes. The 50,000 Shooter says he wants. Names and labels may be silly in some ways, but they can be important. XXX seems very problematic to me. Not the concept, but the name. Googling XXX is never going to bring up a music site. It will ALWAYS bring up porn. As a publicist and marketing guy, that is the first thing I thought of. It’s just bad planning. I do like the idea. I will support it, but I think a name change would be beneficial.

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          • D.S., as I’ve stated below, we’re willing to change the name to something a bit less controversial, but since XXX has already been put on the table, been covered on this site and many others, and will even receive some newspaper coverage this week, we must stick with the name in some fashion, whether it is the “main” name or not. Otherwise it just creates confusion.

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  • I joined the Facebook page. I totally agree w/ Pete Berwick. Bottom line is that it can’t hurt. It’s a start and it contradicts my earlier comment but we gotta start somewhere. The only need for labels and genres in my opinion is so we can find your music in the music store or iTunes etc…

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  • ok, extreme, yes. apologies to JC. I am personally pleased that is your only argument. distasteful sure, but not disrespectful. lead by example, never put out a shitty album. never put on a shitty show, unless there are understandable circumstances of course.but are these artists not busy enough to have to start alliances with confusing branding?

    stage – truth, soapbox, gavel holder, time on the stand, supporters mobile ground zero, THE MUSIC.

    off stage – if anyone offstage thinks they are ANYTHING other than a stepping stone or a contact to the TRUTH on stage, then take HB, you deserve it friend. I am still fighting for Americana, Blues & Country genres…. as simple as ABC. I will not abandon it, I will fight for it. We have sand bags, effecient stepping stones, effecient walls, effecient shelter. XXX is not wholesome and full yet..therefore only a bag of dirt, a dirtbag. XXX Country, cmon… quit fucking me here, I will take it personally.

    I personally feel this is exclusion and is only for the betterment of those on board, yet creating another monopilization (kindly pardon any misspellings) and another blinding element for whats supposed to take place on stage. and the only thing that takes place on stage… the truth. I am not here to entertain in the true essence of the word. I am here to represent, host and work for what I have found myself to believe in. I really am starting to think I don’t have any business explaining in detail what it takes to unbrand and only bring truth in representation in the genre of Americana.

    Im sick of everything that aint spelled out and real. I try hard everyday, not to confuse people. A monkey can figure out the meaning of “Hillgrass Bluebilly” by attending 3 – 5 shows. any one person can figure out “Muddy Roots”, “Farmageddon”, “Deep Blues”. Truth is, those names have physically bled, to push all this, as not to confuse but to promote, aid, and gain respect by leading….by example, not creating fluff until a real geniune hard-on is achieved on it’s own.

    Shits gonna die on its own. 100% of ALL “Blues Societies” will be reformatted or non exsistant as that generation dies off. Truth takes over… what people actually believe in, “Mustang Sally” will finally have tombstone. But there will be Blues Clubs.

    Country – go play in a club/bar/venue where country people go, walk the owner through it, lead by example abd buy one, build one and quit feeding the system…. last time I checked, Clear Channel ownes a lot the venues that Shooter was performing at, that III performs at…. so on and so on. Country fans aint coming cause noone is playing to the country people, so suck on that greasy pecker and realize what “agencies” are creating here, ways into the bullshit, instead of convertin folks with common sense, stripping it down, and doing shit where it belongs, playing it to who will listen. I for one think there is a lot of laziness and people wanting to dig their paws in some jackpots, instead of workin that shit.

    I am going to stop for now, because all I am going to do is create problems for people, not me.

    xxx – ok a home for country & rock, I get it. you have to go the the rock section to buy Biram, Whitmore, Hiram & Huddie. I know. its fucking weird. take an x out or add one, and bring some shit to the people via “tours”, “shows” & “events” and let the “movement” happen on its own. I’ll sign that. Take this coalition and outbid Mexican Radio for LOCAL OPEN AIRWAVES, radio stations starting in Austin, Nashville, Atlanta, Dallas. I’ll sign that. Be meaningful in your sponsors, fuck vitamin water, budget ads for our working class… the struggling working class of local business owners that actually listen.

    Give us something to believe in. People aint followin HB because I have a big ol finger sayin “c’mere”…. I do not have paths in branding. We have a flag.. not a brand of more publisher clipart with no heart.

    argh, I am in for different reasons than most, I need to hire a PR person so I can get back to work.

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    • First of all, I just want to say that I’ve always respected what your label has done, but I must answer a couple of points.

      What the hell is Americana as a genre? Over the past few weeks there have been numerous discussions about just that subject on No Depression and nobody seems to be able to reach a consensus other than agreeing it is a MARKETING label hijacked by the mainstream labels and used to market slightly roots-influenced music to white, urban, middle-class liberals. This is NOT the traditional country or blues audience and that is who we think deserve to hear their own music and their own culture. Americana and roots stations will never play Hillgrass Bluebilly. NPR will never get on board. Rolling Stone will never review them and even the more mainstream “Americana” audiences will never hear these artists.

      Talk about how great podcasts and sites like this are all you want (and I’ll mostly agree with you), but the fact remains that 85% of the people in the country still listen to radio and that number goes up to 93% if you factor satellite radio in to it. You say “shit’s gonna die on it’s own,” but it’s not as long as the kids are being force-fed Taylor Swift and Katy Perry.

      Furthermore, XXX has nothing to do with exclusion. The list on the website doesn’t feature every artist and neither would a list Triggerman made, nor would a list you make. It’s a guideline. We know there are dozens of other great artists who fit in to the format and just because you don’t see them on the site doesn’t mean they aren’t on our radar.

      Your problem is that you are judging the movement before you see it in action. Wait until the festival, the web series and possible TV series, the radio shows across the country, more podcasts and internet programming, etc and then talk to me about “converting people.”

      The bottom line is we want you on board. We want your artists on board. We love what you do and we welcome your ideas. So give us some ideas instead of simply pointing out what we’re doing wrong. That doesn’t help anybody, including you.

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  • please do not mistaken me for someone who gives a flying fuck what Hank III thinks. If anything, Im bettin he escapin from all of this bullshit branding and figuring out how to rebring the meaning of truth in what’s within him, I hope. But if I see XXX, Stanton Levy or who the fuck ever, hell or demons or common references to porn in my fucking ABC’s of americana, blues & country you can thank my Jesus for my not taking action on you…. and Id advise you pray to him, if you cannot, I will lead by example there too, alone, against all of you and anyone who defies faith & truth in American Roots Music. ARMS are for embracing & defending. create with balls friend and BE MEANINGFUL. BE REAL, BE A MAN. Bring filthy shit near me and watch what happens! Adam Sheets wants to bring porn into our country music everybody!!! read all about it, read all about it….

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    • Hillgrass,
      I’m sad and sorry that you’re so upset about this. To think there’s any part of this that could be me trying to make money, or have ANYTHING to do with porn is ridiculous. I stand to make as much money as any other artist on that list, and really porn has nothing to do with this. (if you search for XXX in google, the first two entries are the stupid Vin Deisel movie). If anything, my neck is the one on the chopping block, and I totally am aware of that and I’m willing to leave it there. I know alot of these artists personally and I see how hard of a time they’re having out there, and a lot of them are jumping on board because I think it makes them feel like there’s something happening that they can actually embrace. Whatever… My point here is that this was an idea that I had over five years ago, and just felt right about sharing. I reached out to Adam because I knew he was someone who knew the landscape really well, an area in which I really needed collaboration. Since then, I’ve been lucky enough to meet the folks on here and make some friends and really get a better idea of what needs to be done (as well as being made aware of the significant legwork that SCM, OR, CBN and all these others have done in the past, and the importance of trying to get us all to work together). I really respect you and your label, you have many artists on that label that are so talented and deserve exposure, and I’m sure that’s what you want for your artists. And you deserve to be as much of a strong part of this as anyone else who believes in these things. We’re not coming along saying that we’ve got some kind of answer, or we’re trying to discover some golden city long forgotten, or for ANY reason be exclusionary. You can’t try to liberate and be snobby at the same time, and we are definitely not doing that. Our list is clearly marked as partial, and there is no ultimate goal of who is cool enough and who is not. You make this sound like XXX is against your label, which is absolutely silly. We’re FOR your label. We’re FOR everyone who hangs out on this website instead of having to google all the artists SCM cover’s separately. It’s about a home. We would love to have your input in all of this, as well as support. As for your demanding that Phoenix have “No Shooter”, for whatever reason that is, I can’t help you there, but I can tell you that this has nothing to do with my own personal agenda or wallet. It started as an idea of how to separate the music I was playing on my radio show from the Americana/Outlaw Country playlists which focussed on more middle of the road type music or on older and legacy artists. But it really seems to be something that people like to hear being said, and that is enough for me to believe in it. We also think it was important not to put a “Country” “Blues” “Americana” etc label on it because it defeats the purpose. All of these artists have been shut out because it’s not what the mainstream world associates with the defined genres. If so Hank III, Justin Townes Earle, North Mississippi Allstars and Ryan Bingham (not to mention tons of others on there) would be household names… Look it’s not about fighting, and if you keep thinking this is some personal attack on your label, then it’s never going to get anyone anywhere. But the door is ALWAYS open for your input, collaboration, label, taste and criticism. Please, take a beat and try and see that this isn’t some angled creation. I’ve been called alot of things on this site and on many others, but the one thing I am not is motivated by anything but creative freedom and justice. It’s what my dad fought (and died) for and, whether doubting eyes believe it or not, he and I were very close, and I saw how he cared about music. He cared more for it than anything on the planet, and the music industry broke his heart, many times, and when he was young enough to fight back, he did and he won, and I feel like there is an entire generation of artists that have come from the bloodshed of that battle, and simply hoping that the right people will come around looking for them is not enough. They must be exposed and given the credit and careers they deserve.

      If you disagree with me still, please feel free to rail me, and I’ll read every word and try and find every bit of truth i can in it. But I want you to understand that I care about this very much and only want to finally give the Old Media fucks and their puppets something that they cannot control or contend with. In our Civil War, we are all wondering around on one side of the battlefield (with encampments scattered across the hills and valleys like SCM, NBN, and all the other fine establishments), but the enemy are WELL ORGANIZED and WELL ARMED, and if we can just find a way to all organize, we can make a stand like no other, because we have the heart and soul. That includes you, HB, and all the artists you love and support.

      Okay I’ll shut up.
      Shooter

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      • This is why I’m supporting it. You guys came here and welcomed input from everybody. That’s what turned the corner for me.

        If this was some sinister plan to make a buck off the work of others it would make no sense to get all of us involved. This, in theory, is what we’ve all been trying to do but we didn’t have the resources to do it.

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        • Thanks for the support BlueRibbon. You’re a big part of it, as well as everyone else here. For sure everyone’s input here and other places like this who REALLY know the landscape, will help get this to the next level. We don’t have much better resources I don’t think than anyone here, I just think getting all the artists on board is the first key. Hopefully Hillgrass Bluebilly can see positive in this. What they do is really fucking respectable, so it would be awesome to have them on our side!

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      • I for one appreciate your comments here, Shooter. I also appreciate your emphasis on being an advocate for others. Folks do need to earn a buck and I see that you see this. I just hope you all come up with a different name if you proceed with this…

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  • Blue Ribbon: drinkin & druggin is fine, it happens..I tweeked, I snorted, I smoked, but I wasnt taping myself fucking to country music while doing so, and I grew up, and I know that system and how to destroy it. was it really murder…or was it a good decision, listen, it may have been a story, a dream… a thought, but it was real and it was geniune if you see HB, guaranteed! suicide is a real issue, but sometimes, real mother fuckers dont want to be here anymore, and maybe make a bad decision, I have come close twice, I’ll scan and post the papers…. finding the truth is the scariest thing folks, you know it and you are probably afraid of it, like me. but dont hide from it….. It will find you. (not you Blue Ribbon). but I back my shit up and do not have to worry about what anyone digs up on me and especially Hillgrass Bluebilly. we represent the good. Noone here or exsisting can call that out on us…..

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  • to Adam:
    “Hillgrass Bluebilly will turn the world of music upside down” – John Carter Cash

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  • Adam, I agree and thank you for the opportunity to help and calling me out on the bashing. but XXX will be blocked in todays parental security programming. You are right about Rolling Stone, holy fuck are you right…

    refine XXX for the people that it bothers and you will have our support. with the right presentation from the community, maybe you can sway me on not taking xxx for the worst possible meaning… but I am very negative too. I dont even think I can work on the way my mind works. But I cannot get past XXX. and our fight is still a fight with that name. I look to step over and continue every battle I pick, which is most of them by nature. But I am here to help the good first.

    cXtry MusiX RoX
    ExCo
    CouXtry RoXs by Xample
    Southern Stoned on the Rocks

    i know those suggestion suck

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    • This is what someone said a long time ago to me.

      X X X
      County Rock Southern

      I’m sure someone said the same thing about naming that movie XXX or the silly country song by one of those pop country bitches xxx’s and ooo’s. I even found an old badass record called “‘Dirty Dope Infected Blue Grass Hillbilly Hobo XXX Country Music”

      For now the XXX still doesn’t bother me. To me it’s, if anything, taking back the XXX name. Besides nobody searches for porn by searching for XXX. They look for “ass licking” or whatver, haha. It’s one the second page of GOOGLE now with XXX. Enough discussions and it’ll be on the first page. Look up AAA music (Adult Album Alternative, the top 40 adult contemporary/katy perry ballad airwaves that flood our radios) that was why it stuck for me in the first place. There’s a Billboard AAA chart. I’d love to see Left Lane Cruiser or Hiram and Huddie on an XXX chart.

      I won’t hammer the name right now tho because I think it just gets everyone crazy.

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      • Zerno Tornado! Fuck yes, I love that record!

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        • *Zeno

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  • I like the premise, not crazy about the name though. Shits still in developement but I’am on board to see where this X-rated ride goes. sheeeeesh!

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  • Shooter, I had no rhyme or reason to your bashing, if you must know. I have an ex, now in OK who would drive to no end to go see you, but never lift a finger for my productions and I had to FIGHT for Biram to leave your tour in Phoenix so we could not stop what we created in Phx for him and my vision with folks like Bob Log and such, I accomplished that twice with Biram, you and Phoenix (if I recall right) but he rocks the fuck out, and belongs in that line up of the proposed XXX, and he encompasses more than what HB can offer him, but folks like him need something more. I am very sad to say, but HB has realized our stepping stone, and Biram has got by on ours and needs to continue with organizations of the right support and with better opportunities. Put Jesse Dayton in there, get Billy Bob to endorse it, he needs a home too. But my point aside not being able to use you in our rootsy format (or budget) and not listening past that 1st CD did not call for me saying I do not like you. I simply dont know you. I talked to your mom a few times, I sat with her at her table during a Billy Bob Thorton/ Holly Williams show YEARS AGO. We shared small discussions at the Rhythm Room too… X can work…. but lets use our good resources with good names. Plus I have had ex’s pop up in the porn industry… I have some verifiable backline to my issues with the XXX industry and my issues with country music industry… I let this get personal, as I always seem to do.

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    • It is ALL water under the bridge. Here’s the way I look at it. I’ll include you in the links section, and when we get this going, we will need to have a kind of “Great Panel” discussion on how to pool all of our resources to make this move forward, and I definitely would be honored to have you on board with that as well as your partner in HB (and whoever else you thinks is necessary). I appreciate your honesty, as I think everyone does. We all have our own motivations in this, and our own reasons for caring so much… Ambivalence gets no one anywhere. It’s that PASSION that is exhibited on this website so much and which is why it’s such an important part of this. Triggerman’s passion hasn’t always been in my favor, nor has many others (I don’t think we’ll EVER get Autopsy4 on board with this, talk about passionate! Ha!) But the real reality is, everyone has their own tastes and they have their own beliefs. If we can find away to give everyone a handle to hold onto, we will have one motherfucking big and strong merry-go-round here. I’m gonna throw up a link to your site (do you prefer the myspace site?) on that Links section, to make people aware of your cause. Let me know what we can do, or who we can add to make this thing even stronger.

      Thanks man,
      Shooter

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  • ok…. good point. I do actually type in ass licking and not XXX, and I stayed away from the XXX in moonshine…. and I believe in taking back a name.

    and XXX is close to maverick type branding (if that makes sense)

    welp, another case of maybe, MAYBE keeping my mouth shut is a good thing? Maybe not. But all my friends, I was mean too until I figured out I liked them…. its the way it is.

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  • There seems to be a lot of passion on this subject. I don’t know much about it but I do know myself and Muddy Roots. I work in marketing and merchandising and ponder classifications of music, food, drink, any damn thing that get’s sold to you daily. As an American I believe in capitalism, hard work, and feeding your family. As artist I can’t stand the very same “classifications” used to compartmentalize our music and arts. When I study music I learn that the artists I love are all the same. They are all influenced by the next one. Prime example of Charlie Feathers looking up to Junior Kimbrough. Now go ask a “rockabilly” kid what he thinks of the blues. You’d be lucky if he even knew who Charlie Feathers was but if he did he’d probably think they were oil and water. That’s because the very same machine that helps us identify the bands and music we might like becomes the defining force on what it is. It’s my job as a promoter to “Muddy” up the lines between these genres to show that it’s all just rock n roll. Hell it’s older than rock n’ roll but that’s the word I describe the soul and energy in this music. I don’t stand for or against any “scene” but I promise to show everyone that it is just a blend of 5 others.

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    • mercy! Jason. Brother. you are right

      as far as links? yeesh, I believe SCM & HB has an announcement. I do feel we all need one spot or 2 or 3 spots, I / We have decided to have HB music & web channled through SCM and Muddy Roots for HB merchandise for a year, and if there is Muddy Roots for 10 years, Im sure as shit going to give them the rights to sell our merchandise is along as it helps the Muddy Roots cause, in which they have our full support, with SCM.

      If Adam & Shooter will stand up for this, and knock down any xxx accusations and if there is an AAA format that XXX can contend with, then lets support, I will sign when MUDDY & SCM signs, so let me know your thoughts boys.

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    • Jason this is why I am an official Muddy Roots Cheerleader.
      Please produce me a nice skirt with a little top with your Mueller image on it and a matching pair of knee socks and I promise to wear it to every show.

      Nicely said. Thank you.

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  • Man, I just don’t know how I feel about this. I wasn’t even sure if I wanted to chime in about it. Here are my thoughts so far.
    1. The name is not good at all. I will never say when people ask me what kind of music I listen to. “I listen to XXX” That phrase we never leave my mouth. I have been tired of all the X-shit since the 90′s. Names like X-games, x-treme sports, Generation X and many more, just make me want to rip the x key of my keyboard and set it on fire.

    2. I just don’t see how this is going to change anything. The music industry isn’t just going to say, “wow lets start playing this new genre made up of thousand sub-genres” It is going to confuse the herd. And you know what happens when the herd gets confused.

    3. I would love to see it work but, I feel it would destroy the people that have been in the trench’s for years fighting for this music.

    I really like to see Shooter on here talking about this and listening to our concerns. Thank you sir.

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    • Agreed Bejeus. If Jason won’t make me a cute little cheerleader costume, please make me a Barn Raising one…with kneesocks….not cowboy boots!

      You took the words (but not the sammich) out of my mouth.

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      • We’ll get you a cute Barn Raising outfit KAK. Do you want stripped stockings with it? Because that would be hot.

        But back to serious business. I hate to be the guy that shits in the cereal here, but I have got to be honest, XXX is the worst name ever. And I will never sign on to anything with that name. It could be free beer for life and I still wouldn’t do it. And I don’t give a shit if it has to do with porn, moonshine, extreme ping pong, or anything else. You guys seem to have thought this through and that is the best name? Damn. (not knocking, just wish it would be different)

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        • Yes to the stockings…but thigh high…or knee high…no “tights”

          As for the name, I agree with you. And as a grown woman, XXX is rough. It IS different for ladies. As much as I jump in and roll around in the inappropriate muck with y’all and enjoy the hell out of it, I can’t imagine myself ever telling anyone I listen to “XXX” music…it really isn’t an ok association for a lady.

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  • on another note…. if you do want to push everyone into a new label choose a different name. XXX is associated with porn no matter what anyone says. You’ll end up with a “Kid Rock” style scene and it won’t last. Not to mention any outsider looking at the XXX and thinking about sex. It is counter productive. How about I make an energy drink that is all organic and good for you. I’ll call it DP or for double punch! Never mind the fact that it might make people think of Double Penetration. Unless of course that’s the response you want to get peoples attention. Which by the response you’ve got on this site, I’d say it worked.

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    • Yeah, man. It’s gotten your attention, so it seems to be working. :) On the No Depression site, nobody seemed to have a problem with the name and most saw it as what it was, reflecting it’s place as the harder-edged alternative to Nashville. One even suggested it as a play on the old ZZ Top song “Heard it On the X,” which was in turn a tribute to a border radio station back in the day.

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      • One thing to keep in mind, we are talking about marketing this name to the general public. Of course, all of us who work our ass’ off and are knee deep int the origin of things, may not jump to a ‘porn’ conclusion. However, the rest of the population, the ones who try to put us all in a neat little box, are either gonna think we are all involved in a huge orgy, or we are supporting the next Vin Diesel movie…… ‘Moonshine X’, something, not XXX. It is like the country singer who has to disclaim how country he is. Do we really need to label with XXX, or just put this energy into the creation of music that will speak for itself?

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  • the “Fat Possum” is “Alive” when “XXX” marks the spot where the the “Deep” “Muddy” “Hillgrass” grows on the “Farmageddon”, is this how it works?

    the cause aint bad, the name sticks….in my craw. We need no more issues. Its like the people who dress sexy or even wear weird make up and wonder why people stare at them, or they know exactly what they’re doing, or really (sadly) dont..too much confusion. Or its like the girls who dress sexy and wonder why they cant be taken seriously. I cant take Dale Watson in Phoenix in July wearing a big black trench coat… I cant fuckin do it. I cant see him get massages and die his hair black and think of him as country, when I have Roger Wallace & James Hand real dealin it. But I can sure as shit listen all day to “you lie” or take your pick of a DW hit. So point is, imagry plays a big part. the masses live by perception, my swimming pool service customers think I do rockabilly music. there are so many things I can answer with “take a CD” and “come to a show”.

    Here is my commitment. Drop me off in Tomball, Texas with nothing but 72 CD’s, a few pens, and a shitload of napkins. I will have 1000+ people within a 15 mile radius come to the Tomball VFW for a night of American made country & blues infused rock and roll. Point is we have to build away from the current. We are doing nothing to bring our music to the people who doesnt know any better yet. We are trying to fit in to a system that aint built for us…

    I say VFWs & State Fairs, Circus Tents, Revivals, continous Muddy Roots festivals (and the like, if possible) are really big tickets to a rumble on the ground, yes, a STAMPEDE on this movement. The music will win… we just have to go to them….. the burbs. This is probably not the answer either. We need Venues….. Venues, Venues, Venues. How about we pull our resources and do planet rootswood type venture in the music cities… Nashville, Austin, Los Angeles, Seatlle… we need venues…. we need alcohol sales!

    Or we sell out to sponsors and sell our music to money…. not people…. what can we do to actually change things?

    we can all make something work… but we all will have to agree to defend the xxx name and control it, can that be done?

    I am obviously back and forth, I need a breaky break and want to read some more of the fans input. If everyone is really down to make a difference, then lets do it.

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    • I LOVE the way you think Keith! You sound like the kind of warrior of days of old! I see how your passion drives you too! Let’s find a place in the middle where we can all meet and plan our attack(s).

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      • that lonely stretch of road in Mesa is familiar to us both, a common respected ground, about smack dab in the middle of the place if I remember right, sounds good to me. This warrior was parked there every Wednesday for a couple years on my pool cleaning route for a few minutes, payed respects and reflected my life and doins many a time there over a bowl…. but im in Austin, bout ready to be a father. We should meet. Noone should be alone in their struggle for the betterment which is what we all want, I want to believe. But know I never danced, so with 36 fast approaching, and as much smoking as I do, I have to stand up fight and protect against anyone at anytime when I feel threatned… and Im a defensive guy, there is no winning with me… only fighting and accomplishing right now. when i rest, I ask myself why I am fighting, but I still accomplish, and still today i do not know why. If I didn’t care, I wouldn’t be at the beheading, but if you know your head is an option for the chopping block, do you really care who pulls you free when you ask for help? Will they tax you for it? Will there be any cost of any kind? When does this (not us, this, HB, XXX) but this, life, music, turn cutthroat? I have nothing, you got a $1000… maybe a little more, I honestly think it will take 1 more cat to walk by before this dog is off the chain. All HB chapter owners, yes, are in agreeance to NOT feed this system any longer until we have our own! On 4/12/2011 we go all exclusive, no bookings agents allowed, I already NEVER signed a contract or rider agreement, and we will cater to artists, their right hands or family so to speak. I do not know why I am doing this, but I am in survival mode and doing what god (or the operater of this particular SIMS game) gave me to help this survive. I have verifiable “signs” (ooOOOoooOOooOOo *ghost sounds) and stories best told by members of the Williams family themselves, or myself, as far as me personally, and my slot as a promoter. My heart & gut are hunting for the greater good, there is only one thing that settles me, it’s the good… and if I don’t get it… I am payed off somehow, and its cost will come to all of the sudden and I will be convinced of the justice I seek, hopefully it just being a learning experience for me, which is 95% of the case. I am a fucking pool guy and the other founder works Sunday – Thurs and as I type installing cable, internet & phone. He has a wife and three daughters and I stepfather 2 with my legacy 10ish weeks away. I look at things, maybe even a bit drama queen, but everyone knows I mean it, and they understand that. So are we going to have a beheading on my watch? Caveat Emptor brother, savings and sacrifices is a fine line with us. All of us at HB.

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    • Keith, dude, this is off-topic, but you mind if I offer you a suggestion? How about an album similar to the Hiram and Huddie project paying tribute to Dock Boggs and Son House?

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      • That’s a brilliant idea.

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        • it is… I been thinkin Fred McDowell too, but I have to do some more research. Whats been made famous to me, were maybe made famous to other people, by other people before me, and I never thought on how to address that as far as these compilations or in general. but I love that suggestion and listen to both regularly. It beats the only bad comment I have ever heard “Hank Williams & Leadbelly, thats retarded…whats next? Woodie & Willie?” If that person didn’t make me laugh with the Woody & Willy comment, id’a probably put him on my list.

          The Cash/Burnside project was idealized before Hiram & Huddie, and our initial thoughts were true, this is work pulling this one off. We will do it, but we cant do 1 bad thing, accept one bad song and we knew this would be the greatest of challenges and so far it is. We have made a decision to continue our concept tribute albums, and thats a good one! Boggs/Biram would be fun, but he’d never give me permission to have HB find artists to record his songs.

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          • Man, to get more underground, there’s an old Texas blues songster from the ’20s named Henry Thomas. Pair him up David McCarn, a country singer from the ’20s from North Carolina. Jimmie Rodgers/Carl Perkins, Waylon Jennings/Blind Lemon Jefferson, I could go on and on.

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    • “Or we sell out to sponsors and sell our music to money…. not people…. what can we do to actually change things?”

      Thank you Keith for saying this…this is my biggest concern.

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    • i realize this might be a little late but… i see you mentioned James Hand. can you offer a word on what he’s been doing? i’ve been to his site and the only change i noticed was his standing date at Ginny’s is gone.

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  • There are some great venues in areas that alot of mainstream artist dont go to. Dont get me wrong dont avoid big cities at all but make sure to walk off the beaten path once in a while. Everybody knows everybody in the small towns, and there is hardly anything coming through so word spreads fast. Be sure to promote but you’re not up against as much so a little effort goes a long way!

    Dont give up yet the tables are turning.

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  • Some people are going to resent the branding of this music…when something is as you might say “underground’, people tend to claim ownership and secretly do not want it to become popular. That is not being a true fan, these artists deserve the opportunity to be heard by as many people as possible and enjoy the fruits of their labor.

    It really was only a matter of time that this was going to happen, so it best be handled by people with integrity. That will be the only way to have control and not make the longtime fans resentful.

    I don’t love the name, but I don’t really care as long as the music is great and the people involved don’t turn into a great big swinging dicks.

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  • well shiiiiiit, I aint got to Henry Thomas yet. Thanks. I was introduced to a “country blues” with Robert Pete Williams and this, like that (maybe not “country blues”, is an automatic LOVE button. I am 2 you tubes into him and probably not going to stop for awhile. Ragtime, Old Timey, Country Blues, I loves it, well… the ones I believe.

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  • Sounds to gimmicky. Just let the bands be what they are. What they are is too good to be shoved into one “style,” “class,” “genre.” I think solidarity is a great thing but let’s stand together and say “WE ARE ONE BY BEING OURSELVES.” We are not a section in a cd store.

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    • Check out Jeremy’s comments above comparing this to Lollapalooza and also the section of the roundtable referring to “XXX Blues” or “XXX Country,” etc. We’re all about allowing artists to to experiment, keep their individuality, and not fit in as much as they like. That is where Americana has failed for the most part. We probably should have clarified that earlier, but Jeremy and the guys from the roundtable pointed it out for us.

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    • EXACTLY…Jason…and Beej…you speak my heart.

      I don’t want to be a section in a cd store. The minute it happens, is the minute I find something else to listen to…

      But I’d say “Amazon”…there really are no cd stores to speak of left… :)

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  • My two cents worth: XXX is a terrible name. It’s uninspired and a bit icky. I think to suggest most people won’t associate it with porn is completely deluded. A sad commentary of how desensitised many have become to something that really should be left firmly behind closed doors and out of the mainstream. To me XXX will always reek of pornography, as it will to most people.

    Marketing 101: if you have to explain a name, title or catchphrase, it doesn’t work. I needs to stand up on its own merits. I’ve never heard of Hillgrass Bluebilly but I LOVE the name. To me it says everything that XXX is trying to and failing. It condures up rich images of hillbilly, bluegrass, blues, rockabilly. It’s a record label? Awesome. I’ll check it out tonight. I suggest buying the title off Hillgrass Keith and rebranding! As there seems to be quite a few people repelled by the name, why not throw it out there and ask for suggestions? Damn, make it a competition. I’d happy sit down and nut out a few to contribute.

    Sorry to be be a wet blanket (as I like what Adam and Shooter are trying to do here) but I won’t be signing the petition whilst it’s named XXX. I don’t want ‘Carla is now a fan of ‘XXX’ showing up on my facebook page for my family, employers and friends to see.

    PS Still a fan of Anti-Country Triggerman. It’s original, intelligent and provocative.

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    • The funny thing is not a single person outside of this site has said one negative thing about the name.

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      • The really good part of the name is its reference to AAA, but, honestly, the common fan doesn’t know that there is a classification called AAA, and honestly, why should they?? Its an industry/radio term. I don’t think most music fans on here fall into the category of the common fan though, they’re obviously educated and seeking something different, which is how they ended up here in the first place.

        Anything you come up with will find some resistance. Shooter’s writings on here have terribly impressed me personally. I’m really pretty thrilled. I’m looking forward to the interview, Shooter’s stepping up to the plate, laying his neck on the line. You gotta root for that, no matter what its called.

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        • Exactly. I’ve never heard a radio station refer to itself on air as “AAA.” Will they change that for “XXX”?

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      • We are your typical porn watching sickos Adam. So when we see that it naturally pops in our head. Either that or Molson XXX. (also a few of drunks here)

        On a serious note though, I think you have found yourself on one of the most opinionated sites on the web. We argue about everything. I think we my thrive on it. Even if we agree on something we will still find a way to argue about it. That’s what makes us such a tight knit group. We are a very dysfunctional family.

        And we are all brutally honest. If we don’t like something we will tell you pretty damn quick. As you have probably figured out already.

        Also we represent every key demographic. There’s members on here from the age range of 20′s- 50′s or even 60′s. Every professional demographic is represented also. You are getting a pretty good representation of how the American public is going to feel about it.

        So maybe one of the above is a reason why you only are getting flak from us. WE ARE BASTARDS.

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        • No, man, I didn’t mean that. What I’m saying is that we got similar criticisms on No Depression and other sites regarding many of the things you guys have brought up: who belongs and who doesn’t, why the need for another genre, will it work, why the focus on radio, etc. One blog even called us out brutally for the perceived lack of female artists. But this is the only one where we’ve gotten flak about the name.

          I think what it all boils down to is this: this isn’t Mayberry as much as we want it to be. Vin Diesel seemed to make a movie called XXX into a commercial success and it wasn’t even a porn film. Music these days is likely to include extremely large amounts of profanity (Hank 3, for example, in numerous songs and Shooter in “Fuck You I’m Famous”), as are TV shows, movies, and any other form of media. Like it or not, it’s acceptable and Hank may not have done it that way, but his grandson (and to some extent, his son) sure as hell is.

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        • Well put Beeg. Poignant description of the community that has formed here.

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          • Thank you Trigg.

            Adam, I understand the reason for the name. I even kinda of agree with it. I just don’t like it. Lets set aside the porn argument for a moment. X anything just is about the most corny thing ever. It’s just been played out time and time again. Once ESPN starts using a letter it starts to get pretty lame. Hell ask Vince McMahon about how the XFL worked for him. I hear XXX and I will immediately tune it out. Just the way it is in my head. And please don’t think that I am trying to be argumentative. I really do respect what is trying to be done. I just don’t want to see it get bogged down in the mire of a cheesy name. And it is already is happening. What do you think is going to happen when this thing get rolling? It is going to be our argument on the grand stage.

            That is just the thoughts of a 30 something, collage drop-out with 2 kids and a dog from Pennsylvania. Oh and I am well on my way to drinking to much. (Just for a demographic breakdown)

            P.S.) I wouldn’t use a Vin Diesel movie as any kind of qualifier. He is about the worst actor ever and, that movie sucks on ice. I just shows the general public likes to turn off their brains while watching movies. If there was any justice The Usual Suspects would have been the top grossing movie of all time and Vin Diesel would be homeless.

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        • Excellent points Beej…this is why you are “Bejesus”

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      • Not a single person? How many have you asked? That’s a little thin, Adam. It’s a terrible name, I’ll be brutally honest.

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        • Is it a terrible name in the 1960s when it was actually used to describe adult movie theaters and the movies shown in them or is it a terrible name now that it’s been used to market a highly successful action film (rated PG-13, by the way)? Are “stoner rock” and “outlaw country” also terrible names that negatively stereotype fans and artists alike? Is “hillbilly,” the original name for country music, a terrible name? Or how about “race music” which was used until the 1950s to describe virtually anything by a black artist? Or “hot jazz,” “dirty blues,” “punk rock,” etc, etc.

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          • Adam, seriously? I cannot get my head around how you can’t see how the name XXX is offensive.

            XXX = Pornography. Clearly it doesn’t mean that to you as you continuely bring up Moonshine and crappy action film references (and that is fine, you are right) however please hear you are repelling alot of people by this name. As a woman it makes me cringe. Is it really worth having people choose to not jump on the bandwagon and support the cause because they are embarassed about the name? I think if you wanted to be offensive ‘Cuntry’ is cuter and a more obvious description of the genre.

            Also, it’s not just the American public weighing in here, some of us are foreigners who support this music too. And where I’m from, XXX denotes porn, pure and simple. So that name might also be construed as being misogynistic too: A boy’s club. Women need not apply. Also, looking at the list of artists on your site, it seems like bands with women or solo women artists are in the minority.

            I know I am being overdramatic in my analysing of the name, however I think these points are ones that will be picked up on by alot of others when it gains some momentum and more people hear about it.

            Oh and by the way, when I googled Give Me My XXX the first four sites it through up (threw up?) were porn sites. You were number five.

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          • I’m almost willing to bet that the people who would reject it solely on the basis of the name are far less in number than the people who would embrace it for the same reason.

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    • Well said Carla.

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  • Well first off, I can’t explain exactly why this would be the only outlet that would have a problem with the XXX name, but I will say that during this very robust discussion, the Shooter Wolf Pack that usually descend on me like hawks on carrion whenever I merely mention Shooter’s name have been remarkable silent and absent. I want to see them here defending this idea and defending Shooter, and instead it is left to me to play devil’s advocate.

    I do not like the name, and as Beeg pointed out above, distension is the norm around here, not agreement, so this is not because people are following orders. However, I also know from experience, that if we wait for a name that everybody likes perfectly, we could be waiting for another 3 years, or longer, or forever. I will not throw a good idea out because of a bad name. I will keep the idea, work on the name, and be willing to compromise with the understanding that no name will be perfect.

    Just like my anti-country idea, the name is provocative, and any name with enough punch to get people’s attention IS going to be provocative and polarizing.

    I do not know what the exact solution is, but I also know that the name is a problem, I just don’t think it is insurmountable one. If you drop it down to two XX’s, add more identifiable genre names in front of it “XX-Country” “XX-Southern Rock” maybe that makes it more palatable. This is just a simple off-the-cuff idea, but my point is we might be able to find some common ground here that makes sense. And maybe XXX will work in the end, but my feeling is that if that is the case, everything else will need to be bulletproof, so people will still support it, even though there is a contingent that dislike the name.

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    • XX doesn’t have the same impact. As I pointed out before “dirty blues,” “stoner rock,” and even “outlaw country” are terms that seemed to survive despite portraying negative or controversial aspects of society.

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      • the name has grown on me. Take it for what it is. I don’t think there can be a perfect or even suitable name that anyone can agree on. This is simple, easy to remember, and maintains a level mystique in my opinion.

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        • Jahshie has gone corporate! Damn you first you don’t play country on your show then this. Hang your head in shame.

          Sorry had to do it Jahshie. Love ya brother.

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  • I talked to listed “Possessed by Paul James” and “Ten Foot Polecats” and do not want to be associated with the XXX name. Is Adam and/or Shooter going to take them and Hillgrass Bluebilly off the list? Ten Foot Polecats is straight up blues, and dont even fit in? Konrad seemed very concerned with the XXX reference to his listed name. Boy… I sure hope we do not recieve any damaging emails.

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    • I’ve left the editing of the site up to Shooter for the most part, but I’m sure he’ll remove them from the list as you requested. Ten Foot Polecats does fit in, in my opinion, because it’s all about roots-inspired music, be it blues, country, rock, bluegrass, or whatever.

      To be clear, do you simply want your artists be removed from the list and the name “XXX” or do you also want them to be removed from the XXX playlist Shooter plans to introduce to his Sirius satellite radio audience? In that case, it is a huge loss for everybody, especially the audience.

      The way I see it is this: Jimmie Rodgers probably didn’t care much for the term country music. His stuff was heavily derived from the blues- as opposed to the Carter Family and other country acts of the time- and he probably referred to what he did as just “music.” Likewise, I doubt if guys like Little Richard and Fats Domino cared for their R&B being referred to as “rock and roll” once Elvis and Jerry Lee came along. Yet every artist I’ve named became far more successful by being associated with that name then they would have been without it. That’s what we’re striving for with this XXX thing. Shooter and I have both agreed to talk to you and I really feel like we are all on the same page with this and have the same goals in mind, save for a minor disagreement over the name.

      Think it over and come back to us and if you really want off, it’s done. And you’re welcome back anytime. We hate losing you, though.

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  • I read through the comments and have been following this when possible. I’m not sure how to feel about this, but when I hear XXX it makes me think of straight edge music. I think there would be more people on board if the name were different. I hate generalizing the music I listen to when people ask me about it. There are so many different sounds covered here. It would be nice to have something people are more familiar with. I get so tired of having to describe it as country based, because people automatically think of radio country.

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    • Most of the artists we’ve talked to are on board with it, name and all. Most fans are also on board with it. A few fans dislike the name but ultimately like the idea.

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  • Was there a petition for “grunge”? It’s gonna get chewed up and pimped out, be very careful. Name yourself – Target yourself

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    • It seems from the artist list above and the dozens of independent, unsigned, and unknown artists who have signed the petition as well that these artists ARE naming themselves and are happier than pigs in shit that somebody is finally standing up for them. If you don’t wanna go along, that’s your prerogative, just know that the artists are.

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      • Hey I’m all for XXX. Everyone on the list now, I’m behind. Hell I’ll even change my radio show discription to include XXX. Flying the flag is awesome. Community is terrific. But bastards out there will try to ride the coattails. The marketing Borg will try to assimilate. We don’t want the punk equivalent of Blink182

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        • True and that’s yet another problem with “Americana”: successful manufactured artists who seem to be on independent labels, when the labels are actually subsidiaries of the big boys.

          Thanks for joining us. We’re happy to have you.

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          • tags are hard – if i look at what i’ve been into through-out, i find the changes organic. if that makes sense. Once i found Fat Possum, i checked out everything they released. It might be RL, or Junior Kimbrough, then they released Bob log and the Neckbones. All rockin but different. then Bloodshot – same. Hillgrass and Farmagedon have my full attention now. Indy artists not on a label won’t get that reflected exposure… so I’m not sure what the answer is. I’m just playing devil’s advocate. That WAY down the line if their’s a Grammy catagory for XXX, will we be happy with what we’ve accomplished? and Jethro Tull won the first Heavy Metal Grammy.

            Oh and XXXX is a beer here in Brisbane Queensland – so be careful with copyright ;)

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    • Yes Aussie Matt…yes…that’s my point. If “we” don’t name ourselves, then we are allowing an external force to do it and thereby handing over a level of control…

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      • And if you don’t unite because of fear, then you have relinquished control without even trying to fight for it. Don’t fool yourselves, we have no control. We have no money. There is nothing to lose here, except a few’s selfish delight with a sense of community built on the backs of people who are not getting paid, myself included, as well as many of the artists. This community cannot sustain without more support. If you don’t believe me, I will send you my bank statements.

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        • You nailed it, Trig.

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        • “Selfish delight with a sense of community”? I think that’s a misplaced slam. Do you think that this “movement” as you like to call it is built on the backs of artists and people like you with no need for faithful listeners? That the listeners should have nothing to gain from this other than simply getting to line up to hear folks sing? That community and mutual aid are not important? That commoditizing something that is authentic and real might not ruin it? That grassroots isn’t enough? That corporate power and control can be tamed by you and Shooter and anyone else who wants to control this and name it? That there is no giving or sacrifice on the part of people who value community?

          There are ways to foster support of artists, music, podcasts, and other aspects of this music movement that do not involve commoditization of the nature that Beej speaks of here. Devilyn Carver is starting an artist’s aid campaign to provide food, toiletries and places to stay to artists who are touring as an example. Do you think this is selfish? Is it selfish of me to offer my home and my cooking up to touring bands? To do interviews and transcribe them for free? To travel to foreign countries or up and down hundreds of miles of highways to go to shows or to interview folks? To spend personal time and money advertising via word of mouth the radio shows and festivals and venues that support this music? To order Christmas gifts for my family and friends from artists and their families rather than shopping at Walmart?

          Maybe you would rather have more Trace Atkins ads like I see on the screen when I open up SCM Live? Maybe that is a better way to help out these bands…to accept advertising from musicians who don’t embody the same creative ethos you are promoting with your site?

          I’m not selfish. I want all of the artists and the promoters and the record companies, festival promoters, radio show hosts, etc. to be able to feed their families…as I would like to be able to feed mine. As a single mother, I completely understand what it is to struggle. And I could make more money too if I sold myself to corporate sponsorship and if I aligned myself with the big and powerful. Thing is, it would ruin my authenticity and my sincerity. I wouldn’t be ME. And I happen to like ME the way I am. This is the same way I feel about this music. I like it the way it is. I like the way the natural evolution of this movement or scene has occurred. I like that people get up and DO like Nix, or Devilyn, or Jason or Chris, or you…I’m not being selfish here. I value community, yes. And I’m not apologizing for it…

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          • I don’t know about you but I sure would like to see the day when these artists don’t have to rely on donations from others just to be able to brush their teeth, or have to get food stamps to eat.

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          • Sure. I’d like that for everyone as a matter of fact. But the reason why most folks can’t make do is because of the control that multinational corporations and the government has over their lives. What we are arguing about here is not music or a name…what you are proposing is that in some way my economic model is inferior to yours. My model is one that does not follow what I see in our world today. As a matter of fact, I make choices on a moment to moment basis to attempt to undermine the power and control that the oligarchy that exists in our society has over my life. I would never wish for these artists to have to sell their souls to feed their families. I’m sure many of them wouldn’t either…

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          • You have blown this thing so far out of proportion that it’s becoming to impossible to discuss.

            Between you and Keith it’s like I’m on a fucking conspiracy theory chat board.

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          • Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFPLQw2w4zA

            This is the trailer for Marc Littler’s most recent film. In this film, he outlines the problems inherent in our current economic and governmental system. This doesn’t apply to what we are talking about you think to yourself? It absolutely does. The powerful folks in our society pervert and bend and control much of the beauty that is produced by others and use these creations toward the end of their financial gain.

            I don’t want any part of it. And I suspect that there are many others that feel like I do. This, again, is not selfish. It is alternative. It is revolutionary. It is radical. But it is not selfish.

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          • This IS about community and making it stronger. I keep coming back to Woodstock. What we have here is the beginning of a movement. By taking the right steps, that movement grows stronger and drowns out the bullshit.

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          • Adam, how is this about community? And I don’t mean that in a nasty or combative manner. I am confused about how this is creating community. What I think I hear is that it may make some people some money. While I don’t see money and community as mutually exclusive, I fail to see the communitarian aspect of this proposal.

            Muddy Roots? Sure, that’s like Woodstock. I was there last year and I can feel the creative and communitarian energy coming out of that festival. But this doesn’t resemble Woodstock to me.

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          • If it makes people money, that’s fine. But that’s not the main goal. For example, I’ve been one of the biggest advocates of this and I am in no way a professional performer or musician. I don’t stand to make any money from it. The main goal is uniting people through music.

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          • Adam, I admire you for that. And I too stand no chance of making a buck off of this. This doesn’t make either of us less passionate about it. So I realize that folks are passionate one way or another because of their convictions.

            I think the thing I am hearing people feel upset about (beyond my ideological opposition to corporate capitalism) is the fact that Shooter has pull and clout and that he is trying to unite folks but pissing off ones who have been “doing” for a long time by seeming to usurp what they do and label it something of “his” own. Perhaps his goals are far more altruistic than this. Perhaps financial gain isn’t the goal and this isn’t on its way to becoming a newly marketable genre that will pick up corporate sponsorship and have mainstream labels barking at all of the musician’s doors. But it is hard to see that for a lot of us…

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          • And another question would be: if WHO makes money?
            I have absolutely no problem with an artist making a buck. I go out of my way to support the artists whose music I fancy. But will artists make a buck? Or will all of the auxiliary folks make bank while the artists find themselves as exploited as other artists have been for ages by corporate music?

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  • “Finally” standing up for them? Oh mercy, you are going to make all kinds of friends with that one….

    this is not genuine, it is fluff… a paper contender for no championship belt.

    keep this real, and stop all of this fluff. please…..

    thanks a lot for nothing

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    • Just stating a fact here, man. Ever since we started this XXX thing, numerous artists have came to me on No Depression asking me to check out their stuff. Of course, that’s been happening for a long time, but these artists are different. For one thing, there’s been a lot more of them and, for another, they preface their comments with something like “we aren’t country and we aren’t rock, but we think we fit into the XXX thing.” They’re the types who are too pure hillbilly for Americana, too country for Nashville, and too old-school rock for the top 40. We now even have one artist referring to himself as XXX country on his website. Take that for what you will.

      If you don’t like the name, that’s fine. In fact, I think I’m going to write a letter to Sirius Outlaw Country letting them know I’m an upstanding, law-abiding citizen with no arrest record and I dislike having to tell decent folks like myself that I listen to “outlaw country.” What I’m getting at it is this: people are always gonna bitch about something they didn’t come up with. We’ve talked extensively to the people in this community and others and taken much of what they’ve said into consideration and even added it to the site. We’ve made this a true joint effort involving the artists and the fans alike. That is something the average fan has been waiting for for 30 years.

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  • ….also….. there is so much denial about what this really is on XXX’s part. They are SO convinced they have the answer to all of our problems, yet they want to take 0 responsiblity for being an active part in the “community”. Y’all are in denial, nobody can get past “XXX”…. grant the 1 request, and lets go from there.

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  • i hear ya, the heart is there. no doubt. and the XXX does become less bothersome…until I mention it for the 1st time and folks dont like it… it also raises eyebrows, but not the wholesome way. but country/rock doesnt have to be wholesome, just good and entertaining. I hope we can find something a lil better than XXX (name) ….
    xXx even… isnt that what dosequies (?) beer did?

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  • The reason we think the name can work is because it’s worked before, back in 2002 to be exact. A film called XXX starring Vin Diesel was released that year that made (according to Wikipedia) $277,448,382. Granted, it was a terrible film, but the point remains. Now do you think there weren’t meetings before the release with people saying, “This won’t work. People aren’t going to tell each other ‘man go see XXX. It’s a great movie.” or things like that? Yet it worked, it was a success, and as Shooter already mentioned the first four entries when you Google xxx are for that film.

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    • Personally, XXX doesn’t both me at all, and it sounds like you two have a genuine idea you are trying to work out here, but out of curiosity, do you and Shooter have any other names you kicked around on the drawing board? I can see both sides of the coin how some don’t mind the current name and how some are bothered by it.

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    • XXX was just a summer movie that people saw and forgot about the next week. The name was also a play on the main character’s enjoyment of extreme sports and also capitalized on the popularity of the X-games. In other words, there was a marketing reason behind the name. Your use of XXX is purely for shock value. You are quick to tout artists getting behind the movement as a reason fans should be behind it….what about artists who aren’t behind it? If people don’t like the name listen to options instead of coming with a weak ass excuse of “well, this movie was successful in 2002 with the name, we can be too.”.

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      • So far, 99.9% of the artists we have spoken too ARE behind it, so we’ll cross the bridge you speak of when we come to it.

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      • And we’re more than willing to listen to options. Give us some rather than bitching about our option.

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        • I’m not one to come up with alternate names, I’m first to admit that…hell I even suck at naming characters in stories or video games. Just come up with a better reason for using XXX and it’s potential success than a movie and people might get around the shock value of it.

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          • Sure and I’m sorry if I came across as a dick in my first response. I wasn’t fully awake yet.

            Anyway, as I’ve stated above, I don’t think the name XXX is any more controversial than other labels that have been stuck on music in the past. We’ve stated from the outset that the name has nothing to do with porn, just moonshine (the subject of many a great country and western song). Most importantly, I don’t think it’s as important to get around the shock value as it was in years past. Whether or not that is a good thing for society is up for debate, but regardless, it is a fact, especially considering that many of the major artists on our list- Shooter and Hank 3 included- have embraced shock value from time to time over the years (Not to mention Mojo Nixon, DAC, etc).

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    • And where is Vin Desiel and that “Triple X” movie storyline now? $277M and nowhere to be found today.

      The simple fact that you have to take the time to explain that XXX isn’t porn or moonshine or some other generation X thing should be proof enough, in my opinion, that XXX is a problem.

      This sounds like a “movement” of musical artists to get more recognition/respect among the masses/corporate record world, because I don’t know that you can call a group of artists a genre, isn’t genre a style of music??? And the wide variety of artists we hear on this site and see on the list currently, all play differenent genres/styles of music.

      In my opinion, assembling the artists and gaining some momentum is first. Then coming up with a name for the movement would just bore itself. Somewhat like “outlaw country” did in the 70′s. No one said we are going to be known as “outlaws”. It was born from the media grabbing hold of it. Didn’t “grundge” in the ’90′s happen that way too?

      I personally think the best thing you can do is get a long list of names on that petition, and go to XM/Sirius and convince them to give this a 24hr. station or get more of these artists played on their Outlaw Country station right now.

      A music fest would great, but that will bring in what?? 10-50K people for a weekend? Then what? You just become another music fest for a weekend where a very very very small portion of the population are exposed.

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      • What will a music fest bring? Ask Willie Nelson.

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        • A music fest is EXTREMELY important in my opinion, even more important than the name or the ‘genre’ itself. I was calling for a fest long before I pushed my anti-country idea. Ironically, we now have one of those in Muddy Roots. This is an issue to be worked on.

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      • “The simple fact that you have to take the time to explain that XXX isn’t porn or moonshine or some other generation X thing should be proof enough, in my opinion, that XXX is a problem.”

        And presumably the simple fact you have to end saying you like rock or country with, “but not the bullshit on the radio” is also a problem, right?

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        • If I say I like country music, I am only needing to explain that I like older country vs. pop-country. If I say I like ‘XXX” stuff, I am needing to explain that I like music and not some completely non-musical topic.

          In regard to “What will a music fest bring? Ask Willie Nelson.” I presume your talking about Farm Aid? That certainly has done a lot for American farmers. Completely different than trying to make a move on the corporate music industry.

          And Triggerman brings up the Muddy Roots fest. I am not saying a fest is a bad thing, but this idea seems to be more than a fest. Isn’t this about taking country/simple/REAL music back? If you just want an XXX-fest for struggling/underground artists, then great! But we have fests like that already. And what has it changed of the corporate music world in the past 10years?

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          • No, I was NOT talking about Farm Aid, although I do respect that festival both for it’s long history of great music and of helping farmers. I was referring more to Willie’s annual 4th of July picnic which was what brought the outlaws into the mainstream.

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          • Everyone should read this, I wrote it 2 1/2 years ago, and it was about the importance of what a Festival could have to a movement, and notice I wrote both Hank III and Shooter as possible headliners, even though the “feud” was hot and heavy at the time:

            http://www.savingcountrymusic.com/the-legacy-of-the-outlaw-country-concerts

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          • There was a festival…it was called Deep Blues.
            There is a festival…it is called Muddy Roots.

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          • And there were dozens of small punk festivals, metal festivals, and hip-hop festivals back in the ’70s until Lollapalooza came along and brought them together under one tent with one mission. There are still a lot of festivals for those types of music, some of them even the same festivals, but those festivals are now bigger, make more money for the artists, and more people get to hear the music they like.

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          • Deep Blues ended because the promoter went bankrupt trying to keep it going.

            Muddy Roots started with a $10,000 loss last year.

            These are not models to be harping on, this is evidence why we need more support by joining forces. Who the fuck are these people you keep talking about that are going to take everyone’s money and screw the sense of community? Where is the proposal that outlines that strategy? And who are the specific people/companies you are worried about? Who says we can get large infrastructure behind this anyway, you’re acting like it has already happened. Bitch about the name, bitch about other specifics, but I’m tired of hearing how the idea behind this is going to screw everything up. Shit can’t get any worse. We’re all fucking broke. Me, Muddy Roots, Shooter, Hank III, everyone. Stop acting like this is going to be the next fucking McDonalds. I won’t allow that to happen, whether I sign anything or not.

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          • Well then what is the purpose of this new genre? What is the end goal?
            To get a new radio format on XM radio? One where people have to sign up in order to be played? And somehow this is going to solve everyone’s problems? All of your financial problems are going to be solved by this? I highly doubt it.

            And if so, at what cost? There are some folks who have been very dedicated to this movement who are upset by this proposal and the way it is being handled…the name…the concept…whatever. How is it a threat? How could it become the next McDonalds? The minute you alienate the folks who work in the trenches is the minute it becomes the product of a top-down external organization (you label that what you want if you don’t like corporate) and less a product of grass roots endeavors coming from the bottom up.

            Do you think that the majority of the American population can’t find this music? Do you think they are blind and stupid? That they need a newly named genre and a new outlet on XM to discover it? If they are looking for it, they’ll find it. Just like the rest of us did. If they aren’t looking for it, they are waiting to be spoonfed some music by an external authority like MTV or VH1 used to be (and maybe XM is now…I don’t know). Do these artists want to be spoonfed to masses? Maybe. If that’s the case, I’m not going to stop them.

            Give people credit is all I’m saying. Let them create their own worlds.

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          • Which is what me, Triggerman, Rev. Nix, Keith, Shooter, and everybody else is trying to do. We may have disagreements about the name and some other things, but we agree on the concept.

            If your thesis is true, I respectfully ask Triggerman to stop writing this blog, Jashie to stop with Outlaw Radio, etc. And I’ll also stop writing anything for No Depression. As you already said, if you’re looking for the music you can find it and don’t need us spoonfeeding it to you.

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          • That’s illogical and not at all what I was saying.
            My point is that is it worth the cost of alienating active, committed fans in order to establish an online radio format for XM?
            If you do so, then you are eliminating the grassroots part of this movement and becoming a designed product.

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          • …not just fans…folks like Hillgrass and Nix and Beej and anyone else who is dedicated to this music…

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          • That’s the point. This IS a grassroots movement. There are no corporations or record companies behind this and if there ever are, it will be on our terms. Just as Willie and Waylon fought to do it their way with the backing of the corporate music machine, we are doing the same thing. XM isn’t our goal, anyway. It’s just one (very small) step.

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          • If you don’t evolve, you die. It’s that simple. Without taking some sort of steps to move forward this music will not be around for other generations to hear.

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          • Alright then. As I have said before, I don’t see what this is going to solve then. If there is no sponsorship and no financial backing, what will it do? If it does nothing but garner more fans….great. If it alienates existing fans and attracts the eye of powerful capital, it will be destroyed. That’s my point. But hey, I have nothing to gain and nothing to lose except for good music if the bands cease to make music…

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          • How is it alienating fans? Most people here seem to be on board with the concept, if not the name.

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          • I don’t know if I buy the evolution analogy…evolution occurs naturally…it is seamless and invisible. This is contrived.

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        • @Adam Sheets I have not said much and if what i say even matters is this. To come to these people and tell them there music is XXX come on board or Shooter will not play you on his show is plain wrong. You need to open your eyes and ears and hear these people out. Your wanting to change something they have worked hard and long on. You know the name is a huge problem. Work on that. Work on not bullying people with XM radio play…..

          To be clear, do you simply want your artists be removed from the list and the name “XXX” or do you also want them to be removed from the XXX playlist Shooter plans to introduce to his Sirius satellite radio audience? In that case, it is a huge loss for everybody, especially the audience.

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          • It wasn’t a threat and it wasn’t something I would do. I was just curious about his motives in wanting to be removed from the list rather than offering ideas, including ideas about the name, on how to improve it.

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          • Triggerman, I was wondering how you would feel about starting a whole new stream just for alternative name suggestions for XXX? Adam has stated here he’d like to hear our ideas and whilst there are a few amongst all this, they are sort of getting buried in all the comments. Thoughts?

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        • I have heard some pretty pissed off complaints about it…the name in particular…and the sense that folks are being told what to label what they listen to. This is what I am referencing here.

          I honestly don’t care. I’m canceling my XM radio subscription because I can’t afford to pay for radio anyway and I won’t ever tell folks I listen to XXX music so it really doesn’t matter to me. My concern is with how pissed off some of my friends appear to be…

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          • I’ve seen far more people on board with it than I have seen pissed. And frankly most of the pissed off people seem to terribly misinformed, or are coming to conclusions that are not really there.

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          • Reading through all of these comments, you seem to be the only one rejecting the concept or at least the only one not admitting something like this needs to happen for the music we all love to survive. Sure, there are lots of complaints about the names here (still none on other sites, including a new blog that was posted today) and we’ll work on that.

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          • OK. Cool. Then I will stick to Facebook where I hear otherwise and allow you free reign to do as you all see fit.

            Like I said, none of this really impacts me. I’ll continue to do what I do regardless.

            One thing though: I think that it is a shame that you all don’t focus on something tangible like what I mentioned Devilyn is doing. To me, this is a great example of real help that isn’t a bunch of babble and talk and titling…

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          • Alright then KAK, let’s not do shit. Let’s keep the status quo. Full speed ahead! And watch all your favorite bands quit because they have to get jobs in cubicle farms to feed their children. Watch Muddy Roots go the way of Deep Roots. Watch the music in our culture get even more homogenized. Great idea!

            And don’t say you don’t care and then leave 30 comments. Or shift subjects just because you’re proven wrong and act like we’re talking about something else. You’re not contributing here, you’re wasting all of our time.

            There are MANY things I have a problem with about this, but we need constructive criticism and solutions, not flighty bullshit about how we should instead create a micro-communal music utopia. It ain’t gonna happen.

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          • That’s it KAK, you just crossed a line . . .

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          • Whatever, Trig. I didn’t do anything here. I am simply voicing my concerns the same way you are.

            I’m not saying that we should do nothing. You should do what you feel is best. I am going to do what I think is best.

            There’s been no line crossed. I think you are being a drama queen.

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          • pot calling the kettle black, perhaps?

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          • KAK- “Like I said, none of this really impacts me. I’ll continue to do what I do regardless.”

            That says a ton right there.

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          • Really? A pot calling a kettle black? I am a voice of dissent. I disagree and somehow I cross lines and I am doing something wrong. I suppose productivity is simply agreeing with you. If that is the case then, no, I’m not productive.

            I just told you something that is being done by someone. We disagree on how folks need help. You want big exposure, I like grassroots efforts. We disagree. There is no harm in disagreement. I didn’t cross any lines.

            And the funny thing is, as I’ve mentioned before, I stand to lose nothing here. I am not hitching my financial horse to this movement. I have another place where I butter my bread. I am simply here to enjoy the music and to support the bands.

            If your agenda is something else, then by all means, reveal it and be straight up about it. I have been about mine. Clear as glass.

            Again, we simply disagree on the best way to help bands and festivals thrive.

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          • @IceCold…yes…you are absolutely correct.
            I will continue on doing what I do…I will continue to support the music I love in the ways I can. I’m not going to lose sleep on this. I hope all y’all aren’t either.

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          • I’m not losing sleep over this, but the fact that you can’t see beyond the 6 inches in front of you as to the greater good that folks on here trying to do (i.e. some of those artists you support are going to need more than your couple bucks to put food on the table)
            is really sad.

            I don’t think you crossed any lines, but your concern for yourself alone, and then you come on here and blog, only supports that you like to see your name and hear your own voice.

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          • KAK,

            Excuse the fuck out of me? So you’re saying there’s no dissent here? You’re the one lone fucking voice with a problem with this so we’re all dogpiling you! What the FUCK are you talking about? This whole thing started with me explaining what XXX was and then taking a big shit on it! How fucking DARE you accuse that we do not accept or even celebrate dissent around here! What an irresponsible thing to say!

            And the difference between our points of view is I want “big exposure” and DON’T want grassroots?!?! Is that what the fuck you just said?! What the FUCK do you think this website is all about? I have written 700 blogs. 700 MOTHER FUCKING BLOGS! And not making a dime off of it. Not to mention having bands crash on my floor, feeding them, booking shows, writing promo copy, touring around myself sleeping in the fucking gutter to bring the music to people. How fucking DARE you preach to me about the grass roots! I was supporting the grass roots while you were still sucking your mother’s dick! And if you can’t understand that very basic thing, GET THE FUCK OFF OF MY WEBSITE!

            How fucking DARE you disrespect all the hard work, sweat, blood, time, energy, and all the GREAT fucking things that have come from this argument: the ideas, the mended bridges, the better lines of communication by saying it is all “a bunch of babble and talk and titling…”. Yeah, go back to fucking Facebook and create your own drama and then solve it and act like you’re making a difference. Hell, cut and paste this comment and send it to all of your friends, vilify me, I don’t care. At least that will keep you out of my fucking hair for a few hours.

            The difference between you and me KAK is I don’t think I am better than anyone else here, not you, not Shooter, Adam Sheets, any of the commentors, anyone. I’m a piece of shit living in a shack behind a porn shop trying to save country music. Your appeal to this is how it all corresponds with your bloated ego and your selfish desires.

            I have NOT signed the petition, and I have been “extremely critical” of the idea according to Shooter himself. But I do not DARE insult the energy and effort put out by EVERYONE that has devoted their time and thoughts to this situation, INCLUDING YOU! If you want to come share your thoughts, I would LOVE to hear them along with the rest of everyone elses. But when you get pissed off because you get your nose swiped a few times, don’t INSULT US BY SAYING THE WHOLE THING IS FOLLY AND IRRELEVANT!

            That is crossing my fucking line.

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          • Trig, I’m not pissed, honey. I really am not.
            I’m sorry if I upset you…I know you are trying hard.
            It breaks my heart to see you so upset. Really.
            I’ll walk away for a while and let you be.
            I think you entirely misunderstand me and what I do as well.
            I’m sorry we don’t see eye to eye but like others, I’ll take my leave and probably be all the better for it.
            Keep fighting your fight.

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          • @IceColdCountry…I’m not going to get into this with you.
            My concern is for the good of the music and the good of the bands.
            I have plenty of other places to hear my voice and plenty of other ways of being involved in helping the lives of the musicians I care about.
            It’s fine if you think I’m in some way an awful person. I know where my heart lies and I’m fine with that.
            Best of luck!

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  • I came up with this alternative just off the top of my head = Outlaw Steel: Real southern country, real southern blues, real southern steel. The outlaw bit references of course the country side while steel references the metal/rock side. More importantly, Steel can be a direct reference to “Reinventing The Steel” which was Pantera’s final studio album. It’s a name that existing fans of these artists will get and a name that fans of old outlaw country that might not know Hank III and Shooter exist will see and at least be interested in.

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    • I don’t know, but I am liking “outlaw shit” for the Waylon reference.

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      • I had thought of that too but you would have to change it to Outlaw Bit or something to be radio friendly.

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        • Here’s the thing. We’re gonna have to stick with the XXX thing in some fashion, whether it’s the “main” name or not, which is not necessarily a bad thing. I mean, country is referred to as “country,” “hillbilly,” “country & western,” and, increasingly by younger generations as “pop bullshit.”

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          • It’s all about name recognition IMO. Think of it this way, when you go to Mayhem Fest, Summer Slaughter or any other big summer package tour you know what kind of music your getting from the name. If you have a XXX Fest just by the name people won’t know if it’s metal, porn, moonshine or a Vin Diesel festival. Being able to associate the content with the title with little explanation is key.

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          • Why don’t you let the name bore itself after you assemble some artists and figure out what exactly your going to do? If you don’t let it develop itself, then your giving somewhat of a definition to something you don’t want defined.

            If your going with XXX just to have a name of the petition, that is fine. But let the idea breath and a name will come.

            On the flips side, if you have to give it a name, and asked for suggestions:
            True Music Movement or
            Original American Music or
            The Innovators or
            Outlaws and Innovators

            … your not holding a naming contest. My point is, let the name happen. Otherwise you will just become an XXX-fest, and I would be shocked if it grew beyond that.

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  • As an artist on the list I want to thank you for listing us (Ten Foot Polecats), it is really nice and we all appreciate you listening and enjoying what we do….it means the world to us. Thank You!

    I like the idea of community in music, and expanding the fan base, or just giving the artists a bigger forum to get heard is always a good idea. I think you guys have your hearts in the right place on this, for that I really commend you.

    However, I have to say XXX does conjure up Porn, just like AAA conjures up being stuck on the highway. Neither are very positive. Keith is right, along the way you are going to have to deal with talent buyers, promotional outlets, media, venues, etc….Having worked in the talent buying, promotional end (granted – small scale) you are going to be asked to explain what this is and sell it to media, music/venue owners/promoters, etc. You may be able to do that with some but you are also going to get “I dont want to be involved in XXX because it sounds like a rating on a skin flick and not something I can afford to associate myself with”.

    Just like you said above it is hard not seeing artists get their due because the mainstream doesn’t know they exist, same goes with being pushed away because of an XXX name. You, I and many know what it represents, but thousands of others at this point do not…why start off with a strike against you. A woman posted before (I think her name was Carla) mentioned above “Marketing 101 – if you have to explain a name then it will not work” …that is very true.

    I guess I got to ask Shooter & Adam, are you totally married to the XXX name, since there is a website up and you are scheduled to approach radio I assuming this idea is not in its infancy.

    Adam – you asked for options, I’ll throw in something, it might suck…be I don’t want to be someone who criticized and runs without giving a suggestion…. Deep Roots Music (no mention of country, blues, americana, punk, rockabilly, psychobilly….just let music be music…like it use to be. and Deep can reflect that it is not shallow – like most mainstream music is today).

    One other question…who modifies who is part of this and who isnt? that is always a slippery slope

    Again, I don’t want to be negative, I would like to see all of us benefit from expanded fan bases/audiences as well…these are just some concerns I have.

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    • Thanks for replying. You definitely belong on that list with the other great artists.

      As for who decides who is a part of it, the fans do. We have a list up as a sort of guideline, but we make it clear that it isn’t complete.

      As for your option of “Deep Roots,” I personally would listen to something labeled as that, but I’m worried about the marketing of the term “roots.” For one thing, it connotes something old and not modern, which isn’t appealing to the kids who listen to Katy Perry and for another, it creates the possibility of this becoming another name for Americana, a faulty name for slightly rootsy music that is polished enough to appeal to NPR listeners.

      We are definitely willing to consider other names, sure, but we started the website as givememyxxx.com and the term “XXX” will probably be associated with this movement in some way or another.

      You mention certain promoters and such not wanting to be associated with the term, which is a fair point, but I also think that things may have gotten to the point where they will embrace it. I mean, look at the top 40 albums. You have Eminem, who is well known for violent, profane, and misogynistic, lyrics right at the top. Even in our own movement here, we have Hank III and Shooter getting Parental Advisory stickers on their records. I personally think that the more controversial the name is, the more it will appeal to the young kids who think squeaky-clean Taylor Swift and Brad Paisley shit sucks and also think it is country.

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      • That is kind of what I was thinking earlier about the name XXX, I’m a 30 y/o male, and don’t think the name is the worst or the best, however, if I was 17 or 18, I would probably be really stoked on listening to a “genre” labeling itself as XXX. What about: Triple Hex?

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      • I personally prefer to refer to this as roots music. No matter what the name of this ends up being I will more than likely continue to say roots, or roots inspired music when somebody asks me what I play on the show.

        I’m not as hung up on the name as everybody else seems to be. For me the name, like it or not, is the smallest issue here. Looking at the overall goal, and big picture of this is what is important. Names can always be changed.

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  • After thinking about it for a few days I must say I think it’s a pretty good idea. And I don’t have a problem with the name either.

    I guess it all comes down to which artists are gonna support this. Like others I feel some kind of loyalty to HBE, III, Triggerman, and others. It’s not like I’m waiting to be told what to do or get an ‘ok’ from III, it’s just that I don’t think it’s gonna work out if important and respected guys like them aren’t behind this.

    It’s gonna be a tight rope to walk. It shouldn’t be some elitist “you’re in – you’re out” BS, but at the same time it’s bound to fail if, for example, weak poser shit like Kid Rock is considered ‘XXX’. In the case of Kid Rock it’s probably obvious, but then there are bound to be bands that some think are ‘credible’ and some not…

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    • Shooter and I already addressed the Kid Rock issue in a private e-mail and he is definitely OUT. :)

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      • ha. Kid Rock is a pretty easy call to make. But what about other artists that might be in a more grey area, or in limbo with one or two mainstream hits but still trying to make it their own way?

        I am curious how this XXX idea will receive moderate “big record label” success? Given that the hope is some bands do become more successful.

        Shooter mentioned the TX musicians, specifically Pat Green in the interview. I am not a Pat Green fan, but am a fan of a lot of TX musicians. Some have been very successful. Why is Pat Green excluded? Because he has some mainstream success? Again, not a Pat Green fan, but no doubt some artists will come that are successful, but like the XXX idea. Who decides? How is it decided? It appears that any artist can sign up on that petition. Someone must be monitoring it.

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        • Pat Green’s not there because he is pop- not country, not rock, not blues, not bluegrass. Just pop.

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  • After reading the events of today and dealing with it myself, I really envy two people. They were smart enough to walk away when they had a chance. It just seems to me that there is a whole shitload of misunderstanding here and that this discussion is going no where quick. I fully respect what Shooter is trying to do. And I fully respect everyone elses opinions on this.

    I also remember as far back as last week when there was more listeners to SCM live then there has ever been and everybody’s eyes were on the prize of Muddy Roots. Now we are feed a gigantic shit sandwich. And nobody is on the same page. Misunderstandings have led to friends of years having to explain themselves. The ball was rolling and now it just came to a screeching halt. Wow how quickly every thing falls apart.

    Just to let everyone know as of last night I was ready to sign on to this, Since then I am sad to say that the petition will never get my signature. What changed my mind? It was a magnitude of things. It was a snowball that turned into a avalanche. I love this music will fight for this music. But this baby was just starting to walk and now we are trying to make it fly. Just not a good idea.

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    • Honestly, except for the unuseful comments from one person, and my responses, I think that everything here has actually been positive, productive, and important. I am glad everyone is voicing their displeasure. I am glad that displeasure is being listened to, and attempting to be resolved.

      Some people do not like conflict, and I understand that, but conflict is how things get done. It is nice when things just flow smoothly, but nobody could have gone into this process thinking that would be the case.

      These comments on this article are not where the XXX world revolves. They are an important part of it, but this idea is also be hashed out by Shooter fans on their sites, on No Depression, on Twitter, and it will continue to be.

      As for the name, everyone needs to take a deep breath about it. I don’t know if it will be XXX or not, but quit belaboring the points, it is not helpful. Cast your vote and thoughts about it, and move on. If your looking for that magic name that everyone will agree on, stop. It does not exist. And if we blow an opportunity to unify even a small element of the music together because people can’t agree on a ding dong name, then we don’t deserve this music.

      Balls are rolling. I guarantee that nobody is in a tighter situation than me as far as political allies pulling from different sides of this issue. But that’s fine, I am committed to the process. If you’re worried that this big-time person is against that big-time person, believe it or not, there’s a plan for them both to talk live, and then record it so all you can share your thoughts. There has also been many mended bridges in this process that I don’t think people are paying attention to. I also think communication has been opened where before it was dead. Things are happening. I’m not saying XXX will save us all, but we can’t let FEAR be the reason we don’t even give it a chance to fully flesh itself out as an idea.

      The grass roots have been without leadership for so long, we tend to fear anybody who shows it. We’ve gone so long without it, we don’t know how to react to it. The ball is rolling now that might be the answer to all of our bellyaching for years. Let’s be excited, let’s be thankful. Whether it’s the perfect solution, DOA, or somewhere in between, it is something, which is better than what we have had to work with since I began this site.

      My thoughts.

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  • We have always had something Trigg. Look around man. This is a pretty swanky place. Did you have it 5 years ago? Hey that’s a pretty good SCM live setup, did you have that a year ago? I am not trying to attack. We have been in a growing phase for a while now. But the foundation still needs a few more rivets. Don’t go trying to put carpet in the 10th story yet. Have we put aside our differences and worked together on anything? Not entirely. I think a leader will come from here. Don’t go electing someone who comes offering change, with a pedigree. Haven’t we learned anything?

    Is it all about the money, fame, charisma? Hell I don’t know, wish I did. Are we just tired of waiting for something to break. The wave is in our direction guys. We have had the momentum for a while now. Have everyone hop aboard. Don’t try to jump to another ship.

    Sorry I am very tired and have dealt with too much shit today. Night all. Coley will be in the chat tomorrow.

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  • Don’t ya’ll think this arguing about the XXX name shit has gotten out of hand? lol . Call it hellbilly,XXX, cowpunk, I honestly could care less. My band Joecephus and the George Jonestown Massacre are happy to be on the list in the company of a lot of the bands that I love and have shared the stage with, and while some folks will spend their time going back and forth about the name, I will be going back to the list and checking out some other bands on there that I will probably dig the hell out of that I would not know about if that list wasn’t there. Just sayin’

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  • Another thing to think about, and what I think might even be more important….do the bands know where all of the dedicated fans of this music are geographically? I mean it is great to go out and get more fans but lets unite the dedicate fan base too (not everyone can get to a festival to do so unfortunately). Maybe there should be a “leader” or ideally a few leaders per city/region who can help build or maintain a fan database for the bands that come through the area…finding people who like this music to go to shows and help promote shows/bands, help with local press contacts, etc….maybe even publish media lists that bands can tap into. I know a bunch of people that already do this…Devilyn Carver for instance does this and I know some Heavy Rebel Weekender fans and show promoters do that up here in New England.

    It would be a great tool to go onto an all inclusive website (not facebook as that is too watered down with other things) and see all of this broken down by location. I guess it would be like a fan approved shared email list for all bands of this music, or somthing of that sort. I think it would be extremely helpful because those people also know the lay of the land better than an artists coming into town and they can help you with the details I mentioned above as well. It would make things alot easier on traveling artists as well, as they can maximize their time promoting an upcoming show while driving from stop to stop.

    Build it from both ends, just a thought

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  • Hey folks, I realize I’m joining this discussion just before the rope goes taut, but I was wondering how far down the pecking order of artists Shooter, et al., plan on going…and by that I mean, will no name folks like me have a place at the table or will it be limited to to just the bigger names in the anti-genre? I absolutely love the passion I’m seeing out of y’all, but I’m one of those guys who has a full-time job outside of music and would love the opportunity to just play music for a living, but that’s hard to do when playing to 10 people in a real-by-God-roadhouse. So, would me and my band’s music stand a chance of being played on whatever the fuck you wanna call it radio, or would our music be tossed aside because no one recognizes our name, as has happened on a few occasions (even by some on this discussion)…if this XXX thing is going to be inclusive, then I’m for it, but if it’s just going to be a glorified podcast of the same ol’ folks…no thanks.

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    • Regardless of people’s concerns about it, so far the idea is for it to be very inclusive, and has gone out of its way to include many underground bands. The best way to understand this is to go to http://www.givememyxxx.com and look at their artist list.

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  • This has been an amazing read. I think everyone’s hearts are in the right place. I hope that you can all agree to find a direction to go in and the music we all love will find it’s way to the people. I think that’s part of the reason for this idea. It’s to take the music to the people who have no idea it exist! If it wasn’t for a friend of mine who got me into Scott H. Biram & Hank III…..I doubt I’d ever know about this underground movement. Now I’m hooked.

    My vote – don’t use the XXX name. It’s terrible in my opinion. For so many reasons. And Adam, I disagree about using the word “Roots” – I don’t think it’s as bad a word that you seem to think. To me it seems to be the way to go if you want to market this shit.

    In the meantime, I’m just going to keep playing and listening to the music that I love!

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  • Forgot to say – I think efforts should be in promoting the movement. Not naming the music. Leave that to the listener.

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  • Names always change. What was once cutting edge is now considered, ‘Golden Oldies’….I suppose my point is that this genre of music is creating its own path. Because of the heart, soul, the die hard attitude, and the refusal to conform, these underground artists are making the underground the place to be. “OUR’ genre of music is gonna move forward no matter what we call it. It is inevitable. The state of our country will bring this out and we will all benefit from a country down in the dumps, if you will. Because of this we are going to experience and influx in people jumping on the band wagon.

    Bands that couldn’t cut it in the last trend will give the new buzz a try. We are gonna see so many “Hootie and the Blow Fishers” who want to cash in on this it will be ridiculous!!! This alone will pave the way for some of us who have been beating our heads against the wall for years; it will also hinder our genre because in a sense, the underground will become popular…..hence, ‘Pop’ music. No worries, this happens quite often throughout history, and one thing is for certain…..Shit always settles at the bottom.

    So, all of this energy being spent to put a label on the label-less, will work about as well as ‘Grunge’ did. It will be the name of what is selling at the time, then when that fad fades, we will be left with those who started the whole thing…….AMPLIFIED ROOTS MUSICIANS DOING THE ONLY THING THEY HAVE EVER DONE, MAKE GREAT MUSIC!

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  • It was Loius Armstrong who said:
    There’s only two kinds of music – good music & bad music.
    Some argue that one cannot argue when it comes to taste.
    I disagree.
    No receipe has been found for humour. No recipe has been found for kinship. No recipe has been found for sexiness. Many try – and many more fail.
    The bad news is you can not acquire any of the above. It’s a blessing given to you by Jesus, Dionysos and Shiva the angel of death.
    A lot of names mentioned above simply do not possess the grace of Townes, of Son House or of Doc Boggs.
    The muse has not kissed them, they may know how to do business but very little else.
    They are but poor excuses adorning themselves with the grace of others – and it is completely irrelevant what label they shall choose to attach to their efforts at plagarism and make belief.
    If one is in touch with him/herself and one’s surroundings once can easily spot the fakery.

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    • Thank you.

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      • Thank you El C.!

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    • Who are you El Commandante? How did I miss your post?

      They are trying hard to form their genre. I wonder what the true motivation is? All shoould want the same, for good music to be made, but their XXX motivation seems sketchy and forced

      My opinion and I’m sticking to it.

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  • This is a great idea. But if yall are truly wanting to capitalize on this and establish this genre, Someone needs put on a music festival. ‘If you play it, the fans will come!’

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    • cheap beer harvests ripe opinions…gotta love it! Great Idea Pabst_lover .

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  • Sign me up on the list of endorsers of XXX. I’m ready. I’ve been preachin’ about this for years. I’m a Honky Tonkin’ hell raisin Singer who’s having some independent success.. I damn well have never gotten it from Nashville. I’m pushing this on every forum I can including facebook, reverbnation, myspace etc. I welcome the separation!!!! I removed myself from it long ago.

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