20
Stock Rising for Leroy Virgil (Interview)
When I wrote my review of Hellbound Glory’s new album Old Highs and New Lows I forgot to mention the other great players on the album besides the frontman Leroy Virgil, especially the drummer “Chico,” whose the other member of the band that has been there since the beginning. But as their recent album gets older but the songs don’t seem to, Leroy Virgil is beginning to be exposed as an A list singer songwriter in the underground scene, with skills that are even getting him some attention in the broader country world.
In a review from Country California, CM Wilcox says:
“Beneath all the booze and swagger lies a wordsmith. Virgil characterizes the partners in the dysfunctional relationship of “Either Way We’re F**ked” as “mutual parasites,” bristles at being treated as “nothing but debris” on “In the Gutter Again,” and elsewhere manages what could very well be the first seamless integration of the word “sclerose” into a country song. He’s an exceptionally clever writer.”
Leroy stopped down for an interview on the most recent episode of The White Trash Revival. You should head on over there and listen to it in it’s entirety, but a few of the meaty nuggets are transcribed below. Leroy doesn’t want to be a star, doesn’t want to be famous or rich. But he does want to play music, and be able to afford to put food on the table. If there is any underlying theme of what this website is all about, it is to make sure that exceptional talents like Leroy Virgil are able to do that: make the music we all love, and feed themselves.
Donnie Cash: How long have you guys been together, Hellbound Glory?
Leroy: We’ve been together about 4 years, chunking away at it. But I’ve been singing country with various projects for about 10 years now.
Donnie: How did “Scumbag Country” come about?
Leroy: It came pretty naturally. A buddy of mine kinda put it together. We played a gig right on the coast in Northern California and we stayed up all night singing, playing guitars, drinking booze. We played another gig the next night and we were driving and he says “You know Leroy, you’re just a fucking scumbag.” And (I said) you know that has a good ring to it. You’re right I am a scumbag. And you know, “Scumbag Country” is a cool way to call our music.
Donnie: I liked your album Scumbag Country and I like the new one even better.
Leroy: It’s a pretty personal record for me. Some of those songs are 10 years old. Called it Old Highs and News Lows because of that. “Hard Livin’ Man” I wrote when I was 19-years-old, I was living with a roommate back in Washington, getting into some trouble with crystal meth and just raising hell. I just kinda wanted to put all my best songs together about drugs and drinking. Just about every song has either happened to me, or has happened to someone I know. I write songs about real shit that happens.
Donnie: Most of the guys that are big in country say that you have to live the lifestyle to write a good song. And you’re songs are good, so there it is, you’ve lived the songs that you write about.
Leroy: A little more than I’d like to, to tell the truth. Its a battle. You know sometimes you feel like you gotta keep pushing yourself lower and lower into the gutter to get more material. That’s in the back of your head when you’re writing songs. I’ve been writing songs about doing drugs since I was a kid basically, when I first started doing drugs. When I was 15-years-old smoking crank from lightbulbs. I’ve pretty much been a lifelong user. Trying to quit though. I promised. The only time I ever said no is when someone asked if I had enough. I’ve never really been addicted to drugs. I’ve been addicted to being self-destructive my whole life.
Donnie: You know its probably hard, because you don’t get any mainstream radio play. You do have us little guys.
Leroy: Its not all about getting well known. Basically I just want to be able to sing some fucking songs for people and be able to eat decently. Macaroni and cheese is fine with me. I don’t want to be on sort of mainstream radio because most of that shit sucks. I still love Alan Jackson and George Strait but there’s obviously something wrong with it. It sounds like 80′s metal, not metal but 80′s glam rock. I don’t like to get into the whole thing of talk too to much shit about the mainstream, because it’s always going to be like that. It’s just not my bag. I’d rather listen to more honest music.
I can’t listen to music if I don’t think I’d like the guy singing it. That’s why I’m not big in to Old Crow Medicine Show. I like some of their songs, I’m just not a fan. Not to talk shit. I have to feel that sort of spirit. You know like Hank, when Hank sings or Hank Jr. sings or when Hank the third sings. And I feel like boy, if those guys were sitting in the room right now drinking beer I’d probably get along with them all right.
Donnie: Where do you want to be in the next five years?
Leroy: I thought I’d be dead by the time I hit 32 so. I’m 28 right now. Probably have a kid by then with the wife. Probably still be driving around playing music. Hopefully make enough to keep paying rent and put some mac and cheese on the table. I really don’t have any aspirations to be a star or be well known. I just like signing songs. I really don’t like the part of having to . . . its hard to explain. I just be like to be able to sing songs for people. I don’t want to be a star at all. It’s a convoluted answer, I know. I don’t see myself being Tim McGraw or Jason Aldean.
Motherfuckers who are in it for fame and fortune aren’t in it for music. I have an ex-wife who wanted to sing country music, and she didn’t even fucking like it. She just wanted to be famous. It’s like why would you want to be famous if your famous for something that isn’t you? A buddy of mine opened for Jake Owen a few weeks ago. I guess he was a decent guy on a personal level. But my buddy showed up for a sound check, he was opening, and they were listening to rap music. He said he wasn’t really country at all, he seemed more like a surfer dude. I guess he actually did a cover of Vanilla Ice.
28
Is It Important to Draw Distinctions in Pop Country?
We love to paint pop country with a broad brush around here, which may not always be fair. Think about it: sure we might consider two artists like Taylor Swift and Brad Paisley pop country, but the degree of how much pop compared to country they are, or even their overall talent level can be dramatically different.
When Taylor Swift won the CMA Awards for Entertainer of the Year and Best Female Vocalist, one of the reasons it seemed like such a tragedy was that Swift couldn’t even sing on pitch in her performance on the award show itself; something that should be natural to any music performer, let alone an Entertainer of the Year.
Carrie Underwood is about as country as a New York City sewer rat, but though it pains me to say it, the American Idol product has a strong, powerful, always on-pitch voice; and unlike an act like Rascal Flatts, her perfect pitch is not due to auto tuners. Brad Paisley is pop country’s teacher’s pet, always first with his hand up to be Carrie’s co-host for the CMA’s. But he also happens to be a very talented guitar player.
George Strait and Jamey Johnson are certainly using the Corporate Nashville machine to forward their music, but the music their trying to forward seems at least attempt to respect the traditions and carry along the sound and themes of traditional country music.
There are tiers of pop country, just like there are to anything. Taylor Swift, Rascal Flatts, and Keith Urban aren’t really country at all. Neither is Carrie Underwood, but like Brad Paisley, as a musician she has some undeniable talent. Alan Jackson and Miranda Lambert are country, but still with a pop twinge and that over-polished “Nashville” sound that is caustic to many of our ears.
Some people wonder why on a website called “Saving Country Music” that I don’t talk more about people like George Strait and Jamey Johnson. It is because so many other publications already do. I’d rather write a review for an album that nobody else in the media will even listen to, than one that will just be another review out of 100. And when you live in my country music world, even listening to old school Alan Jackson is a culture shock.
But my question is, is it important to draw distinctions between pop country artists? If we don’t, do we risk being hypocrites for lumping all the music together? Or should we spread or venom in a wide, non-discriminating stream towards all who’ve given country a bad name? Or should we even care?
11
Down With the CMA (Part 2-Corruption in Performances)
In the last part we learned from Waylon Jennings about the backroom deals that go on when the CMA decides who to give awards to. Waylon also talked about how he and Ricky van Shelton were asked to cut the songs they were going to perform short for time reasons, and how Waylon and Ricky got in hot water for DARING to cross paths with the CMA.
Well these weren’t the biggest altercations over performances at the CMA Awards.
That distinction lies with George Jones and Alan Jackson. I have to give credit to two of my readers, Vantastic, and Mr. Bandana for tipping me off on this. But when researching what had happened, I found SO SO much more.
So just before the 1999 CMA Awards, George Jones was asked to perform an ‘abbreviated’ version of his song ‘Choices.’ George, feeling that he wasn’t a “baby act” as he put it, refused, and boycotted the show. And in a super act of class, Alan Jackson, while preforming, cut his own song short, and launched into George’s ‘Choices.’
This is from just after the CMA’s, and I love how he says ‘We’re gonna do this one all the way through” at the beginning.
But this is where the story gets as juicy as a deep fried Thanksgiving turkey.
So George’s boycott caused a stir that eventually exposed CORRUPTION in the way the CMA decides who gets to play on the awards show. Long story short, there is a committee of 20 major Nashville label people who decide who gets to play, and they push THEIR performers while other performers get left behind.
From livedaily.com:
“According to a report in Tuesday’s (9/14) Nashville Tennesseean, the two events relate to a controversy surrounding the make-up of the board that selects the awards show’s performers. A CMA Awards performance is considered to be one of country music’s prime gigs because exposure to a network TV audience of millions can often result in a significant spike in album sales.”
“Six of the 15 members of the CMA television committee — who decide which acts are invited to perform by majority-vote — have ties to the Bertelsmann Music Group (BMG) and the Universal Music Group, according to the newspaper. Of the 20 available performance slots for this year’s show, 15 were allotted to BMG and Universal acts. Jones’ current album is distributed by WEA, as is Curb’s label. (Mike) Curb was the only member of the TV committee with ties to WEA, which he reportedly feels is a major reason that Jones wasn’t asked to perform a full song.
In other words, who was a member of this corrupt panel?
MIKE FUCKING CURB !!!!
Herr Fuhrer of Curb Records. The man responsible for suppressing Hank Williams III for a dozen years. The most corrupt label executive in Nashville, and my arch nemesis!!!
And when it came out that the CMA was clearly corrupt in how it dealt with handing out performances, heads had to roll, and whose head was the the first to roll?
From the same livedaily.com article:
“Curb Records President Mike Curb announced that he will step down as a member of the Country Music Association’s television committee after this year, and has asked others with ”conflicts of interest” to resign as well.”
And don’t fool yourself into thinking that Mike Curb was doing the right thing by resigning. Also from that article:
“CMA Executive Director Ed Benson and others have speculated that, rather than shady label politics, Curb’s resignation had to do with the fact that Curb Records’ LeAnn Rimes wasn’t invited to perform this year. She reportedly was asked to be a presenter, but declined the invitation.”
So Mikey was cheezed off that Leann couldn’t perform, that’s why he resigned.
Man, it is absolutely amazing where you can find Mike Curb’s handiwork. This is the kind of stuff we’re dealing with people. Outright corruption.
Like George Jones said “We gonna do this one all the way through.” Well I’m gonna do this job of kicking the pop out of country all the way through, and I won’t rest until it’s done. These people have MURDERED country music, AND WE CAN’T LET THEM GET AWAY WITH IT!
PS: Alan Jackson preformed a version of this song with George Strait. In a blog a while back I said some unkind things about Alan. I have to say, I’m still not a fan of his music, but he is clearly a stand up guy, and for that he should be recognized.
2
Bob Dylan to Release An Album of Unfinished Hank Williams Sr. Songs
The Story:
On November 16, 2007, it came out that Bob Dylan had acquired some unfinished songs that had been in Hiram Hank Williams briefcase when he died. Nobody knew then, and nobody knows now exactly how Bob Dylan acquired these song sheets. At some point apparently Bob sought the help of none other than Jack White (The White Stripes, The Raconteurs) to help him finish at least one of these songs.
(Jack White)
Other artists rumored to be involved in the project include Norah Jones, Willie Nelson, Alan Jackson, and Lucinda Williams.
Possibly the only reason we know anything about this project is because of a guy named Dominic Suchyta, a bass player for Jack White, who blabbed about a recording session he had participated in involving these unfinished Hank Sr. songs.
Dominic Suchyta from November 16, 2007:
“This project started when Bob Dylan acquired the ‘lost’ Hank Williams songs. Essentially, the lyric sheets Hank died with in his briefcase. Jack is my oldest friend, we talk on occasion and he asked me to come down and record. Dylan had contacted him to see if he’d like to finish some of these tunes.”
“No doubt Dylan recorded a tune for it with the Modern Times sessions. I’ve also heard through the grapevine that Willie Nelson and Norah Jones are involved, but like I said this is a shot in the dark. It’s been an interesting project in that sense. I’m a huge fan of Hank Williams and was moved to hear what Jack had to contribute.”
“We did the session in one long day, live in a circle with some mics around—much like Hank would have.”
Suchyta also said that the recording session was at Blackbird Studios in Nashville, and that Bob Dylan wasn’t involved, but that Donny Herron who plays with Bob Dylan was.
“They recorded an unfinished Williams song called “You Know That I Know.” No one has heard it as it was a Hank Williams lyric sheet that Jack put to music and edited a bit. Jack was sent most of or all of the unfinished tunes and picked this one to finish. We listened to quite a bit of Hank while I was down there and sat around the two of us playing our favorite Hank tunes, but the song was done when I got there. I think Jack just ingested a bunch of Hank Williams and this is what came out of him.”
The next time information surfaced about these unfinished songs and the recording of them was on November 26th in an MTV News interview with Jack White himself:
“Bob’s putting together an album. He came upon, somehow, 20-25 unfinished songs by Hank Williams: just the lyrics, no music, and he started to ask people if they would finish these songs. He did one, asked Willie Nelson to do one, asked me to do one, and I think Lucinda Williams and Alan Jackson are on it too. I think it might come out this year (2008). It’s a cool record.”
All the information that is known and verifiable about this project has come from these quote attributed to Jack White and his bass player. No information has come from or is available from Bob Dylan, or any of the other artists involved, nor any music label. The project at this point has not been officially announced. This appears to be a very secret project, and nobody is talking about it.
Something else I think it is important to point out is that if we are to believe Jack White’s quote, the record is finished.
Also just to clarify, none of the unfinished songs had ANY music to them, only lyrics. Some of the lyrics were complete, some were not.
Other Information:
Some reports are calling the name of the album or project the Briefcase Songs, but this can’t be verified.
I’ve seen some unverifiable information that back in 2004 Sony/BMG and the administrators of the Hank Williams estate approved the idea of Bob Dylan taking a run at putting music to the lyrics and the songs were sent off to Dylan, and that at the time Dylan either did not have the time to deal with the project, or that he tried to finish and record the songs but was not happy with the results. But again, I cannot verify this.
Also it is rumored that there were as many as 35 songs that were actually taken from the briefacse, but only 20 to 25 were given to Dylan.
Please note too that these songs are NOT the ‘Unreleased’ songs that I talked about in my last blog, nor the ‘Lost Notebook’ Hank Williams songs which are a whole nother matter altogether.
My Thoughts:
My first reaction when I heard about this was probably very similar to many of yours: If anybody should be messing with these songs, it should be Hank Williams III. And I have to say, even back in the day when I was just a passive Hank III fan, when I’d only heard Risin’ Outlaw, I would’ve still felt this way, simply because NOBODY even comes close to matching Hank Sr.’s songwriting style and voice than Hank III. Maybe Wayne Hancock, but certainly not Norah Jones or even Willie Nelson.
Furthermore, I just feel icky thinking about ANYBODY trying to create or re-create the germ of the idea behind these songs, that only Hank Williams heart ever truly knew. This is bullshit. And it makes me sick, confused, mad, and curious.
But having said all of that, I feel like I need to say a few things about the situation and the artists in involved. Some of you might get pissed at what I say here, but you have to understand that music is a business, an ugly business, and something like this is not uncommon, in fact it is very common.
What We Don’t Know
It’s important to understand that there is a LOT we don’t know about this story. A lot of people are saying that Bob Dylan got these songs through some shady outlet, but if we are to believe the unverifiable story about Sony and the Hank Williams estate (aka Hank Jr. & Co.) giving these songs to Dylan, then Dyan did nothing wrong in that regard, and if anybody did, it was the Hank estate. Can you fault Dylan if someone threw a bunch of Hank Williams songs in his lap and said run with them?
We also don’t know that Hank III is not part of this project. If there were 20-25 songs, and Dylan only recorded one, and Jack White only recorded one, and the others only recorded one, how are we to say that Hank III didn’t record one or some of the others? What we can say, is there were more artists involved than what have been named so far.
The Music Biz
Most songs, esp. country songs, meaning the lyrics and the music itself, not the recordings, but usually the recordings as well, are not owned by the artists, but publishing companies that deal with them like any other product, sometimes buying and selling them without any or little input from the artist themselves.
For example, for a long time the Beatles did not own the rights to their songs, none other than Michael Jackson did. Michael Fucking Jackson. Do you remember years back when Michael Jackson briefly married Lisa Marie Presley? The whole thing was a sham. The intention behind it was to marry together two of the largest privately-owned music rights libraries in the world.
Neil Young has one of Hank Williams’ guitars. Hank III has one of Johny Cash’s guitars, given to him by Hank Jr. This is the crazy world of music where stuff ends up in places people outside the music industry would think it doesn’t belong.
The Artists Involved:
Let’s just say I was a world famous country musician. I would not want to touch these songs. I would feel so intimidated by the task, and I would feel dirty performing it.
As for Norah Jones and Alan Jackson, whatever. Think about what you want about them, but I think we can all agree they do not have the type of talent that would be good for trying to represent the soul behind a Hank Williams song.
I am not a big Lucinda Williams fan, but I do give her credit for being an incredible songwriter, and someone who appreciates the artistry behind the craft. She might the most qualified out of this bunch to do this, but still, should she be? How does she know what direction Hank Williams meant for the music behind the lyrics to go?
Willie Nelson on the surface might seem like someone you wouldn’t mind in this project, but Willie Nelson’s biggest influence is not Hank Williams like it was for Waylon and Johny Cash and others. Willie’s biggest influence was Bob Wills. He laughs off a lot of Hank Williams fanfare as hype.
The fact that Jack White is involved with a Bob Dylan project smacks of the old artist trying to get legitimacy by teaming up with the old guy trying to hold on to relevancy. AKA, Hank Jr. teaming with Kid Rock, or Neil Young with Pearl Jam, etc etc. I never could get into The White Stripes, even though people I respected musically told me I should. It was just too poppy for me. But I will say, with the Raconteurs, Jack proved that he is not just some pop rock blow hard. Again, I don’t think he should be one representing what a Hank Williams song should sound like, BUT don’t dismiss him as a nothing musician. He’s got a little bit in the bag, and is a shredder guitar player in a classic blusey style. YouTube the Raconteurs if you want.
Bob Dylan
Bob Dylan is the most influential songwriter of the last 60 years, and possibly of the last 100 years, in all of music. The only man who could even possibly rival him would be Hank Williams. I’m not talking BEST songwriter, but most influential. And he’s not just a folk or rock guy. He’s recorded multiple straight country albums, and they are good. Nashville Skyline is one of my favorite albums of all time. If you told me that someone was going to have to record these Hank Williams songs, Bob Dylan wouldn’t have been my first pick, but he definitely would’ve been on the short list. DON’T DISCOUNT BOB DYLAN. Sure his voice is shot, but he’s got more skins on the wall than any living musician on the planet.
In my opinion, we do not have enough information about this situation to make a clear judgment. There’s also a chance here that if there is a villian, it is the Hank Williams estate, who has allowed this whole thing to happen. I’m not going to get on Bob Dylan until I know the whole story.
You also have to understand Hank III’s place in the world. We all love him and he’s a part of our lives. But average Joe has never even heard the name. Bob Dylan might not even know he exists, or if he does, never heard his music, or has heard that he’s ‘washed up’ or ‘turned metal.’ Hank III’s legacy has been buried by Curb Records and the Nashville Oligarchy. That’s the whole reason I’m doing this Free Hank III thing. But again, maybe III is even on the album. We just don’t know.
Believe it or not, I’ve actually got more to say and I wanted to include some YouTubes in this, but I’ll stop. You’re opinions pro and con are welcome.
20
Free Hank III Takes the Pop Country Challenge
Hey Dumbass, (or whatever)
So you talk shit about pop country, but you admit you never listen to it. So how would you know if it sucks or not? Why don’t you try listening to it, you might find something you like. I don’t like all pop country, but I like Toby Keith (or whatever pop country moron you want to insert here). Just because something’s popular doesn’t mean it sucks! Look in your iPod. If you can’t find any pop country, then how would you know if it sucks?
You know, I understand that there are a lot of people out there who like music simply because it’s not the ‘popular’ thing at the moment because it gives them some sense of identity. There’s some people who listen to certain music simply because it IS the popular thing. But there are some people who if the music they like at the moment were ever to become popular, they would stop liking it immediately, and to the credit of my pop country critics, I’ll admit that’s bullshit.
I remember when I was a kid I was really into classic rock. Then ‘The Doors’ movie came out and everybody was a big Jim Morrison fan, and so I fled that scene and went to punk: Dead Kennedys, Sex Pistols, etc. Then ‘Green Day’ made punk mainstream again, so then I got into ska punk. Then the whole swing band craze hit, and groups like the Bosstones were all of a sudden being played on Top 40 stations. So I started listening to Hank Williams and DAC.
Now I’m older and see how all of that was bullshit. You should like whatever you like, regardless of its popularity at the time.
Like I’ve always said, pop music has it’s place in the world, but it’s place is not country.
But since I like to answer my critics, I am going to tell you the story of the last time I listened to pop country. But first I’m going to take the pop country iPod challenge.
Understand, I am doing this live, as I type. I have not looked in my iPod to see if there’s any pop country in it. People give me music all the time and there’s shit in there I don’t like, so who knows.
So here we go. I’m sifting through the iPod right now. A, B, C, D, ah!
Dolly oYo Parton. But wait, this is mostly her older shit. ‘Mule Skinner Blues’ and ‘Coat of Many Colors.’ Stuff like that.
Can’t really call that modern day pop. Dolly back in the day was bad ass, don’t care what anybody else thinks.
Shit, can’t get out of the D’s. Dwight Yoakum.
Now Dwight in his day was definitely pop country, but I don’t care. I like his voice, his songwriting, and I think overall he’s just bad ass with his Bakersfield sound:
“My favorite male country singer? Dwight Yoakam.”
–Johnny Cash.
Of course nowadays Dwight’s been relegated to the county fair circuit, and Nashville looks at him as a has-been, but he got a TON of radio play back in the late 80′s , 90′s and early 00′s. Dwight is also part of the Reinstate Hank documentary being put together by Judd Films.
But it looks like D is where it ends. No more pop country. But hey, I got one. Isn’t that all it takes, like black friends???
- – - – - – - – - -
Now I’m going to recount the last time I listened to pop country, and let me warn you I’m probably going to get pissed.
I had flown into Orlando Rat City on business, and had rented a car to drive to the Redneck Riviera of Daytona Beach. I had nothing to listen to but the stock radio. So I turn it on and it’s the pop country station dialed up. So I listen. The first song I wouldn’t even consider a country song, it was a Bible hymn with God this, God that. Now I’m not pro OR anti God, but I just don’t want to be preached to in my music. The song sucked too, but whatever.
The second song is when I lost it. They played a song by Alan Jackson that I guess was a hit called “Where Were You When the World Stopped Turning?” It’s about 9/11. What got me was one of the lyrics:
“I watch CNN, but I’m not sure I can tell you the difference in Iraq and Iran.”
Now I understand this is all supposed to be country pride flag waving, and I ain’t saying I’m against that, but I find Alan Jackson ‘aw-schucks’ country idiom stupidity revolting. This is the kind of bullshit that perpetuates the idea that all people from the country, or all poor people are as dumb as dirt.
Listen, there are people who have read this blog while serving in Iraq. There are numerous people in my friends that have served in Iraq or have loved ones over there. THERE IS A GIRL WHOSE BEEN A PART OF THIS THING ALMOST FROM DAY ONE THAT LOST A LOVED ONE IN IRAQ!!!
Don’t tell me Alan Jackson that SHE doesn’t know the difference between Iraq and Iran. Iraq is where her loved one died, Iran is another country!!!!
Fucking bullshit.
Sorry, but I’m pissed off. And I don’t care if that song was written before the war started. If that was the case, they should stop playing it. And I don’t really care if there are people out there that actually don’t know Iraq from Iran, that’s not the point. And don’t think this is flag waving; I ain’t for or against any war. I’m just for the people of the country being shown respect, and as far as I’m concerned, Alan Jackson called them stupid white trash motherfuckers.
You need a fucking geography lesson you fake-ass country superstar fucktard???
There Alan Jackson, now you can shut the fuck up.
Needless to say, after that I turned the station to classic rock. They were playing a ‘double shot’ of the Doors. I fought through it.
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