How Country Was the Original Guns N’ Roses?
“Guns n’ Roses are what every L.A. band pretends to be.” –Steve Earle
The original lineup of the once massive (and soon to be again) hard rock band Guns N’ Roses is apparently back on speaking terms, and has just been announced as one of the headliners of California’s Coachella Festival in April, with a potential stadium tour brewing according to sources sleeping with the band. That means Slash, Axl, Duff, Izzy, Dizzy, Snoozy, Clyde, wait . . . no Snoozy or Clyde, and who’s the drummer? . . . will all be sweating it out for privileged hipsters in the desert, marking the first time the original lineup will hit the stage since they all lost their shit on each other after their final show in Buenos Aires during the first Clinton term.
Whether you’re swayed by the lifted skirt and perfumed inner thigh of a Guns N’ Roses reunion likely has something to do with when you were born. Since the original lineup’s reign was so short-lived yet burned so bright, Guns N’ Roses left quite a unique legacy. If Axl had overdosed on Quaaludes or taken one to the head and died a rock star death before the original lineup split up, perhaps the band would enjoy the same hero worship as Nirvana. But instead fans got a chance to see Guns N’ Roses sort of implode, and then get sad with Axl drafting replacement players, the band getting inducted into the Hall of Fame under Axl’s protest, some guy named “Buckethead” replacing Slash (who literally played with a bucket on his damn head like some kind of Adam Sandler SNL character also from the Clinton era), while the production for Chinese Democracy burned through a cool $12 million before it could earn a street date.
So should a country fan give a shit about any of this? Well that’s a good question. One of the genius things about Guns N’ Roses was how they were so many things to so many people. That’s how an album in Appetite For Destruction—which on the surface was a full tilt post-glam hard-rock record veering towards punk metal—became the best-selling debut record ever. Right out of the chute, Guns N’ Roses was never starved for throwaway, expletive-laden tirade songs exploring the worst of Axl’s id to act as filler for albums, but many of their blockbuster singles effervesced with Southern harmonies indicative of Skynyrd, Alabama, The Allman’s, and later The Black Crowes. “Paradise City” was the default “Sweet Home Alabama” for the ‘X’ generation. Go listen to that opening guitar frill and tell me it doesn’t remind you of the littered beaches of southern Alabama, or getting arrested for public intoxication in Pensacola.
Maybe it’s a little too guitar heavy to call country, but the reminiscent vibe of “Sweet Child ‘O Mine” could easily be stripped down into a country song if one desired, and their blockbuster acoustic ballad “Patience” could be labeled “country” as much as it could be labeled anything. Moving on to the Use Your Illusion era, you listen to a song like “Yesterdays,” and you wonder if Guns N’ Roses wanted to be a Southern rock band the entire time. The Gospel chorus in their cover of Dylan’s “Knockin’ on Heaven’s Door” gave the song a distinctive Southern flavor, and those are just a few examples from the double album effort.
So was Guns N’ Roses a country band hiding behind a hard rock exterior? Probably not. But what they did do was put a musical legacy together that appealed to many listeners, including to country rock fans. If your sensibilities lean country, you can probably cobble together a G N’ R playlist that won’t make you wince. Meanwhile they symbolized the last relevant hair metal band with their debut single, “Welcome To The Jungle,” found favor with many punk and metal listeners from both their proficiency and edge, and knew how to throw in just enough slower panty wetters to keep the fräuleins paying attention. It was kind of genius, really.
. . . except the band also inspired an entire generation of mainstream country performers to take the genre in an arena rock direction, with screaming guitars, screeching vocal lines, and bravado and attitude usually not welcome in a country music performance unless you’re watching David Allan Coe. Guns N’ Roses has been name dropped in as many songs recently as Hank. Even Carrie Underwood is out there covering their songs, and Brantley Gilbert has a track called “My Baby’s Guns N’ Roses” on his latest record.
So was Guns N’ Roses a sum positive or negative for country music? It’s hard to say, and it may even be a stupid question to ask. But the reason that the United States and the world is agog over the idea of an original Guns N’ Roses reunion tour is because they come from an era when music was fearless, when it meant something, when it was made by people whose lives were a mess, just like the rest of ours, and that rawness and realness was something we could relate to much better than the choreographed and pre-programmed arena country rock of today.
Guns N’ Roses was a train wreck then, and they’re a washed up train wreck now. But they’re still better than many of the country music choices of today, because at least they were unapologetically themselves.
Zack
January 5, 2016 @ 10:38 am
I like to think Izzy Stradlin is playing in some 70s style blues/country rock band back home in Indiana someplace five nights a week. He’s the once that kind of bought the updated Faces sound to the band (and the little bit of country influence I think).
DownSouth
January 5, 2016 @ 1:02 pm
Izzy put out a solo album titled ‘117 degrees’ back in 1998 that pretty much matches up with your “70’s style blues/country rock” description. I have the CD somewhere in a box and have not listened to it in years but just now found it on Spotify and pressed play…still sounds good to me.
I just looked him up on wikipedia and found it interesting that Izzy’s given name is Jeffrey Dean Isbell. Something good about that name.
RD
January 5, 2016 @ 1:04 pm
I had forgotten about that. I have a copy as well. The title track is good. Its a shame Izzy can’t really sing because I always liked what he added to G’nR. He might have had a solo career if he could sing at all….
DownSouth
January 5, 2016 @ 1:21 pm
Izzy’s discography on wikipedia lists 11 solo albums. I guess I never paid attention after the Ju Ju Hounds record and 117 degrees but it looks like he stayed busy writing and recording songs up until 2010 anyway.
Jf
January 5, 2016 @ 6:44 pm
Yeah, Izzy is the best. I have three or four of his solo records and listen to them all the time. Never listen to GnR anymore. I think that any fan of the more electric-vein of roots rock or just good solid rock ‘n roll or whatever would appreciate his stuff.
The first two Izzy were just re-issued on vinyl in the UK, if you can track those down.
Jay D
January 5, 2016 @ 10:44 am
FYI Buckethead in spite of his appearance is considered by many to be one of the best and innovative guitarists in the world.
Trigger
January 5, 2016 @ 10:54 am
I’m just razzing on the dude. If you wear a bucket on your head, you have to be a badass guitarist, right?
Jay D
January 6, 2016 @ 10:07 am
Yeah no doubt. I wasn’t offended or anything, just more a call for those reading if they haven’t seen and heard him play that it’s worth the watch.
Fuzzy TwoShirts
January 5, 2016 @ 10:54 am
It’s Andy McKee, in my mind.
Top 5 of mine (No particular order)
Andy McKee
Roy Clark
Segovia
Don Rich
Leadbelly
Mike
January 5, 2016 @ 2:52 pm
Andy McKee is good but there are many who are better. Go listen to Luca Stricagnoli for instance. McKee just happened to go viral which is the only reason you’ve heard of him.
Jackie Treehorn
January 5, 2016 @ 7:55 pm
Bill Kirchen?
Travis
January 5, 2016 @ 3:56 pm
I was also going to comment on the buckethead jab in the article. I don’t own any albums by buckethead but I’ve seen him live a couple times and the shows are great. Saw him team up with That 1 Guy for a show and although extremely unusual, it was an awesome show. Can’t get into any of That 1 Guy’s stuff away from the live stage either but definitely fun to watch live.
Jessica
January 5, 2016 @ 10:44 am
Oh brother i saw this coming next axl will buy a condo near vandy, release a “country” album and punch out a stripper at Christie’s
He already shares a side ho with Gary Allan and is a certified schizophrenic what could possibly be next?
(did the sleeping w comment refer to a pasta named falafel?) lol
RD
January 5, 2016 @ 10:51 am
If they tour, I’ll be buying tickets. I never thought of them as country, but they did include banjo on a couple UYI songs and a couple of those songs had a country-ish sound. The acoustic half of Lies is also country-ish. Axl, in his non-falsetto voice would be capable of singing a country song. Izzy was a Stones devotee and his influence brought a Stones-type sound to may songs. Although they are regarded as an LA band, Axl is from Indiana, so I’m sure he grew up on a heavy dose of country and heartland rock, which is heavily country influenced. I saw the rebooted lineup a couple times and it was really an all-star musician cast. Buckethead, et al were/are incredible musicians. Was it really Guns ‘n Roses? No, but it was damn good.
Fuck Nirvana and the whiny bitch they road in on. Nirvana wasn’t fit to lick the boots of Guns ‘n Roses.
Acca Dacca
January 5, 2016 @ 11:35 am
I agree with you, both in your fandom for GNR and distaste for what bands like Nirvana did to rock and its legacy. I really miss hard blues rock, of the kind that is its own style instead of tribute tunes or covers or bands that are trying to sound exactly like Led Zeppelin in the hopes that they’ll take off. However, I much prefer the introspection and lack of hedonism in grunge. I think Nirvana’s music is decent but overrated in terms of actual creativity myself, but it’s their fans that absolutely ruin it for me. It’s one thing to like or love a band’s music and worship the ground they walk on; it’s another to shove that down everyone else’s throats. No, I don’t think Kurt Cobain was some lyrical or songwriting “genius” that should be heard by all. If anything, his lyrics are inane at best and painfully trivial at worst. I also don’t understand how some rock fans can crap all over AC/DC for their perceived simplicity and then praise Nirvana for the same exact thing, but only because they use minor chords instead (?). Worse still, this sound wasn’t even unique to the scene, much less the band itself: the Pixies, Melvins and Soundgargen were around before Nirvana, to name a few. Nirvana just happened to have the right combination of angst and accessibility that these other bands mostly lacked.
It also amuses me that all of that “no bullshit” talk about grungers was bullshit itself. Kurt Cobain hated his fanbase, partly because he felt like having too many fans would cost him his underground street cred. Really? And hair metal was all about image? Pearl Jam had the same problem. Worse still is that the sheen of these guys hasn’t worn off over time, it’s only grown shinier. Contemporary reviews of grunge albums were often mixed, if not negative. These days if you question the almighty Eddie Vedder, much less supreme deity Kurt Cobain, you’ll be crucified. I’ve always said that dying too young before burning out leads an air of romanticism and intrigue to some artists that accounts for much of their fame. The reason Kurt is seen as such an important figure is partly because he died so tragically. I’m probably stepping on toes here, but I feel the same way about Lynyrd Skynyrd. People want what they can’t have, and violently taking away the option like with these two bands stimulates fevered want in many.
That’s not to say the ’90s rock scene is completely devoid of merit. I think the original Alice In Chains lineup was one of the great rock bands of that era. Their album Dirt from 1992 ranks as one of my all-time favorites of any genre, same with Appetite For Destruction. Even then, I find myself more interested in much of the so-called “post-grunge” bands than the “real” bands. I can’t think of a single band classified as “post-grunge” that has a solid critical repute, much less one that’s generally well-regarded. Some of them were derivative, yes, but I think designating that whole scene with a “post-” label is ridiculous. Grunge was all derivative of ’70s punk and hard rock, but they only “borrowed” according to fans; everyone else who came after stole (chiefly from Pearl Jam, as the party line goes). Most post-grunge has achieved such a dour reputation that showing any sort of fandom to any such band is grounds for a lashing and dismissal as a music fan. Why? Derivative or not, a lot of those bands stripped out a lot of the unsavory elements of “real” grunge and re-injected pop hooks and melody into the music. There was still darkness, but it wasn’t as esoteric and came across as much more relatable. It also helps that post-grunge dropped the politics as well; I can live without hearing another soap box song about who I should vote for or who ruined the country from Eddie Vedder. Many grunge fans like to say that post-grunge was inauthentic and poser; perhaps, but it was also a hell of a lot more fun (as I’ve mentioned in certain other comments here when applicable, I’m a big Creed fan, questionable as that label is to some).
Bringing it full circle, does anyone else find it disturbing that Kurt Cobain is often described as “the voice of a generation”?
RD
January 5, 2016 @ 11:45 am
I agree with you on Alice in Chains. They are underrated and they were an excellent band. I disagree with you on Lynyrd Skynyrd. If anything, they are under-appreciated outside of country/southern rock circles.
I think Jim Morrison and the Doors are exemplars of the “died young and now they are gods” fashion. Jim Morrison had no musical talent and didn’t even really write songs. He scribbled mostly-nonsensical poems that Ray Manzarek and Robby Krieger turned into songs. Have you ever tried to listen to more than three or four Doors songs in a row? The music is obnoxious and grating. Its like listening to an organ grinder.
Acca Dacca
January 5, 2016 @ 12:06 pm
Lynyrd Skynyrd underrated? My ass. What are you smoking? If I go the rest of my lifetime without hearing “Sweet Home Alabama” or “Free Bird” again I’ll die a happy man. They’re the Nirvana of Southern rock: a band that gets all the credit for a multi-faceting subgenre that met a tragic end and is oversold by legions of fans and “trendy” for younger listeners to like.
The Doors are another good example, but your analysis is a bit flawed. As country fans, we expect lyrics and music that make sense, go together and adhere to tradition. Rock is pretty much the opposite: they expect something new, and many rock fans consider quality to be mutually inclusive with originality. People I know that don’t like country consider it to be “predictable” and “bland” because of its lack of pretense. It doesn’t posit itself as above the listener or having something they don’t, so it’s not good enough. Music like the Doors and Nirvana is all about making as much noise as possible, as loudly as possible to irk as many people as possible. The fact that their lyrics are incoherent is just icing on the elitist cake. Lyrics that lack focus or even a point allow the listener to read into them and hear what they want, which takes them into “genius songwriting” territory. The incoherent slurring of Kurt Cobain suddenly becomes poetry because some disaffected teen that’s angry at their parents for no reason heard their story in a song about nothing. Songs that have a clear thematic point often turn off rock listeners because they’re too direct compared to what they’re used to. That’s part of the reason I like Creed, because the lyrics in those songs are relatable and easy to understand, just like in country music. No wonder a common criticism of the band is that they’re “simplistic”; if they’d just written inane drug-fueled rants they’d have been heralded as “smart people” music.
RD
January 5, 2016 @ 12:32 pm
If you think Sweet Home Alabama and Free Bird are the extent of Lynyrd Skynyrd’s catalog, I’m afraid I’ve got some bad news. I usually turn those songs off when I hear them on the radio, because I’ve heard them two million times, each. But, that doesn’t mean they aren’t great songs. Perhaps you should dig a little deeper than two songs. What major critics rate them so highly? Certainly not Rolling Stone or Mojo, etc. Skynyrd didn’t crack the top 400 in Rolling Stone’s list of greatest albums of all time.
Acca Dacca
January 5, 2016 @ 12:53 pm
I’m fully aware of their catalogue of songs. Hey, Nirvana has more songs than “Smells Like Teen Spirit” and “Lithium.” The point I was making is that bands with songs that become so prevalent throughout a culture and era as to become part of the very fabric it’s composed of is not what I would call “underrated.” Classic rock stations blast Skynyrd almost as much as Zeppelin (though they’re rarely afforded hour-long special blocks like the latter). You want to know about underrated Southern rock? Try Marshall Tucker Band or the little-heard Stillwater (a different band from the one in Almost Famous that existed in the 1970s). Heck, even Molly Hatchet.
If we’re speaking in terms of critical repute, I’m talking modern day. Show me some contemporary reviews that aren’t glowing for their first few albums. They’re rated on par with Nirvana at Rate Your Music, a site that appeals to the hipster elitist crowd and has a Radiohead album as the highest rated record on the whole site. At Allmusic it’s the same story.
http://www.allmusic.com/artist/lynyrd-skynyrd-mn0000170369/discography
https://rateyourmusic.com/artist/lynyrd_skynyrd
I’M the only person I know that has an active distaste for Skynyrd. Obviously that is limited to my own experience, but it should be noted. On a separate note, I’m kind of confused as to where you’re getting your ideas about the reputations of these bands. Is that YOUR experience? Because I’ve not met anyone that thinks only country and Southern rock cirlces respect Skynyrd, that Nirvana was never “cool” and that GNR has ALWAYS been “great.” The common opinions I’ve encountered are often much more nuanced, and even the complete opposite, both from people I’ve met and materials I’ve explored about the eras.
Jack Williams
January 5, 2016 @ 1:34 pm
Lynyrd Skynyrd underrated? My ass. What are you smoking? If I go the rest of my lifetime without hearing “Sweet Home Alabama” or “Free Bird” again I”™ll die a happy man. They”™re the Nirvana of Southern rock: a band that gets all the credit for a multi-faceting subgenre that met a tragic end and is oversold by legions of fans and “trendy” for younger listeners to like.
There you go again.
Six String Richie
January 5, 2016 @ 1:44 pm
I totally agree that Skynyrd is way overrated. Did they have some good songs? Yes. Were they arguably the biggest southern rock band of their time? Yes. Since they were short-lived they never had to deal with the PR disaster of trying to chase a new fad and failing miserably. If they had lived to the mid-80s they probably would’ve gone full on glam-metal just to stay relevant.
Agreed on Nirvana, too. Though I would argue that they did have a handful of excellent songs. Also, there is something to be said for an artist that can connect with an entire generation of kids on an emotional level. And Grohl has proven to be one of the most important rock artists of his generation.
But I don’t find Cobain to be particularly talented, with maybe a few examples of writing he did for Nirvana and Courtney Love’s bands. He wasn’t much of a singer, guitar player or performer. But he knew how to relate to young people of his time. Which is somewhat of a talent.
Jack Williams
January 5, 2016 @ 1:53 pm
Since they were short-lived they never had to deal with the PR disaster of trying to chase a new fad and failing miserably.
Keith Richard once said something similar about the Beatles.
If they had lived to the mid-80s they probably would”™ve gone full on glam-metal just to stay relevant.
I’m trying to picture Ronnie Van Zant going glam anything and failing miserably.
Did they have good songs? Yes.
They had great songs. Buckets of them. Not all of them got to the radio.
Like Patterson Hood wrote in Life in the Factory:
They had to find another glory
But folks, it’s still some sad story
Legend overshadows
The songs and the band
RD
January 5, 2016 @ 2:01 pm
“If they had lived to the mid-80s they probably would”™ve gone full on glam-metal just to stay relevant.”
Absurd. Street Survivors was a big departure from the sound of their earlier albums. The addition of Steve Gaines was a huge part of this. Street Survivors included a Merle Haggard cover and two Steve Gaines songs. If anything, they were moving further away from rock music and more towards honky-tonk, straight blues and country…
Acca Dacca
January 5, 2016 @ 2:23 pm
There I go again? You don’t know Jack 😛
Unknown Shredder
January 5, 2016 @ 3:02 pm
RD…don’t even waste your time. If you’ve gotta defend or fully explain Skynyrd to someone, just don’t. Most people just gripe about 2 songs, blah blah blah….they had so many and I love their more country-blues types & story telling. Yes, in whole, they are under rated & appreciated because of 2 songs being overplayed & people Not listening to their full library. Ronnie was a country singer in a Rock band…and to think he was gonna do a solo album and wanted to play with Merle & Waylon????? Just sad that it never happened.
Anyway, very thankful for what they left us from their short but awesome career 🙂
Jack Williams
January 5, 2016 @ 3:10 pm
I think you’ve done this Nirvana/Skynyrd analogy before and I just don’t think it holds up to scrutiny. For one, it took 8 or 9 years of eligibility before Skynyrd was inducted into the RRHOF. Nirvana got inducted in their first year of eligibility on the strength of two albums.
I think the Patterson Hood Iyric I included above (from DBT song Life in the Factory off the Southern Rock Opera album) is very accurate. The hype and legend around Lynyrd Skynyrd overshadows the quality of the band’s music. Maybe classic rock radio does play certain songs of their to death. I stopped listening to the radio about 20 years ago. Once several years back, I was stuck listening to the radio in my car for a while. After a while, I really got sick of some songs, one of which was Sweet Child O’ Mine. And I think it’s a great song.
Without question, The Marshall Tucker Band were a great band and one of the best that were tagged with that broad “southern rock” label. As for Molly Hatchet, I thought their first two albums were a lot a fun. Once Danny Joe Brown left, I lost interest as they seemed to become a generic hard rock band. But even at their best, they were nowhere near Lynyrd Skynyrd. They played faster. Their songs were enjoyable, but not Lynyrd Skynyrd caliber. But yes, they were a lot of fun.
the pistolero
January 5, 2016 @ 3:40 pm
Outside of “Sweet Home Alabama,” “Free Bird,” and”Saturday Night Special,” I always quite liked Lynyrd Skynyrd. “Tuesday’s Gone” is one of the greatest songs of all time, IMO.
ShadeGrown
January 5, 2016 @ 8:01 pm
“On the Hunt” is my favorite Skynrd song. They have a couple songs that are overplayed – but they aren’t overrated.
Acca Dacca
January 6, 2016 @ 7:03 am
Jack, I never said my analogy was perfect, it’s just my opinion. Sorry if that deserves a “there he goes again” designation like I’m senile and ranting, but I stand by my assertions. My dissertation of “They”™re the Nirvana of Southern rock: a band that gets all the credit for a multi-faceting subgenre that met a tragic end and is oversold by legions of fans and “trendy” for younger listeners to like” has held true in my life. SCM is the only place I’ve ever heard any talk about Skynyrd being “underrated.”
That said, no comparison between two different variables is ever perfect, and their Rock & Roll Hall of Fame records show as much. The difference in time probably has to do with Nirvana taking the world by storm with Nevermind, whereas Skynyrd built themselves up organically. Also, Nirvana hasn’t continued to tour with a revolving door of band members, which I think has held back some bands from getting in, like Deep Purple (I think they’re finally getting in this go-round, though). Even then, no one would say that Purple doesn’t belong in the ranks of most inventive and influential ’70s hard rock artists with Zeppelin and Sabbath. But the Rock Hall has been a tad questionable over the years: they inducted James Brown before many more-deserving ROCK artists, and are throwing N.W.A. in with Deep Purple this year (just because their movie was a big hit). How’s that any sort of objective criteria with which to compare bands?
I do agree with The Pistolero, though: “Tuesday’s Gone” is a great song.
Jack Williams
January 6, 2016 @ 7:14 am
On the Hunt is easily top five for me. Another great one from the same album (Nuthin’ Fancy) is I’m a Country Boy. Musically, it’s like Lynyrd Skynyrd meets Free (the band, that is). Lyrically, it describes who Ronnie is without putting down/mocking people not like him. And another really good one from that album is Railroad Song.
Those last two songs are ones I didn’t even know until I picked up the album maybe a dozen years ago. Around that time, I had picked up all of their studio albums on CD, sort of inspired by the DBT album Southern Rock Opera. For the 25 years prior, my knowledge of Skynyrd was One More From the Road, their last two studio albums and whatever other songs were on Silver and Gold. That’s quite a bit, but there was still a lot of great songs from the earlier albums that I hadn’t heard.
I think you’re absolutely right with overplayed vs. overrated. Mike Cooley of DBT talks about that a little in this interview at about 5:18. Also, some thoughts from him on Music Row at about 7:18. I think the interview is about five years old (around the time of The Big To Do).
Jack Williams
January 6, 2016 @ 7:33 am
Oops. Forgot the interview link.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJUwy72kXko
Jack Williams
January 6, 2016 @ 8:39 am
@Acca Dacca
No, not senile and ranting. I think it was a while back. You brought up that analogy and I took exception to it then. So, when I saw your comment here, my reaction was “Oh, boy. This again.” And then I left that glib comment.
You say they’re getting all the “southern rock credit,” if you will. I just wonder how meaningful that credit is and who it’s coming from. If it’s classic rock radio, then I say who cares? I can go though a whole list of really good songs that I got sick of because classic rock radio played them to death. For a Skynyrd example, there was a time where I was just sick of That Smell, You Got That Right and I Know a Little from Street Survivors. I don’t think I ever heard One More Time, Ain’t No Good Life or Honky Tonk Night Time Man on the radio. As to these “legions of fans,” I’m not going to let the perhaps skin deep overzealousness of some of them affect how I feel about the band. Closer to home, I feel a similar way about Bruce Springsteen. Of course, not listening to classic rock radio helps. Once I got my first CD changer in my car in the ’90s, I pretty much stopped listening to the radio for any reason except maybe traffic reports. The only time I listen to the radio for more than a couple of minutes is when it’s my wife’s turn and she likes to listen to the pop country station.
As for the HOF, I would just say it’s the “rock and roll” HOF and not the “rock” HOF. There are some rock bands in the HOF that I personally wouldn’t use the words “rock and roll” to describe (e.g., Genesis, Metallica, Steely Dan), even if I do like them as a rock fan. I think people like James Brown, Aretha Franklin, Stevie Wonder (’70s), and Otis Redding are closer to rock and rock than some of the rock bands in there. As for some of the rap acts, I find the induction of Madonna and ABBA to be more objectionable. Of course, that’s my very subjective opinion.
Acca Dacca
January 6, 2016 @ 3:58 pm
@Jack Williams
Don’t forget, the original point of contention was that Lynyrd Skynyrd was somehow “underrated” (as postulated by Ronnie Dunn… I mean “RD”). I responded with the assertion that they are “overrated”, to which I once again spun my theory about the similarities between Skynyrd and Nirvana. As such, we were at both extremes of the spectrum, not arguing for the middle ground of “the band was really good.” So the point about radio stations was merely an example, not the whole idea. I’m not saying Skynyrd (or even Nirvana, for that matter) didn’t have some good tunes, and every artist has work that’s considered among their best that never makes it on the radio, but I’m saying that I think both bands were overrated in terms of their popularity/regard vs. actual contributions. But that’s obviously an unpopular opinion, and let it be known I’m not trying to step on anyone’s toes. I tried on Skynyrd’s pants and they didn’t fit me. End of story.
As for rock & roll vs. rock, that’s kind of splitting hairs. Metal is a form of rock; it grew out of the original form. But it’s still rock. I can understand drawing lines between country and rock, but drawing lines between subgenres that would sound more or less exactly the same to anyone outside their realm of influence is silly. Take AC/DC for instance: they play loud, but their compositions are pretty much a basic early rock template. The term “rock & roll” is as much a blanket term as just “rock”, it just has more syllables. Some purists would obviously disagree with that assertion, but the same could be said for “country & western” vs “country.”
Jack Williams
January 7, 2016 @ 11:40 am
The term “rock & roll” is as much a blanket term as just “rock”, it just has more syllables.
Ah.
Getting back to James Brown, though. He was part of the first class of inductees. Do you believe that there is no place for him in the RRHOF? How about Ray Charles?
Acca Dacca
January 7, 2016 @ 1:50 pm
I don’t know why, but anytime you quote me and then respond I feel like everyone thinks I’m a dumbass and just haven’t realized it yet…
Anywho, I’m not saying that certain artists that weren’t necessarily rock or rock & roll deserve to be in the HOF, it’s just that I think inducting artists that merely had an effect on rock before others that are dyed in the wool of the genre is a bit odd. It’d be like inducting Bob Dylan and the Eagles into the country music HOF before Hank Williams and Willie Nelson. There’s a difference between crossover appeal and being the cornerstone of a given musical movement. I’ve never heard any one rock musician claim in their interviews that they started jamming on guitars or drums because they wanted to be like James Brown or Ray Charles. They were great artists and had a wide-ranging effect on music, but that doesn’t mean they deserved to be inducted before bands like Deep Purple.
Jack Williams
January 7, 2016 @ 4:03 pm
Nah. I just thought I was being lectured and I don’t particularly care for that. 😉
I agree that Deep Purple should certainly be in the HOF, although they wouldn’t have been eligible in 1986 when James Brown and the first class got in because of the 25 year rule. The Beatles and the Beach Boys weren’t inducted until 1988 and their first albums came out in 1962. So, for the first class, we’re pretty much talking about artists who started recording no later than 1960.
I personally support artists like James Brown, Aretha Franklin, Otis Redding, et al., being in the RRHOF because I relate to their music as a rock and roll fan. I think of their music as a grittier version of the blue eyed soul type bands of the time (e.g., Rascals) who seem to get tagged with the rock label.
That’s all from me on this subject, I think. Over and out.
Jason
October 24, 2016 @ 2:18 am
Lynyrd Skynyrd didn’t really die out all that soon. They were around for over 10 years, and they released 5 albums in 5 years. Much more proficient of a band than Nirvana. Nirvana was just a blip on the radar, and unlike Skynyrd, they did not in anyway bring anything new to the table. It was college rock/grunge for the the masses whereas many of the bands that they ripped off were rawer and dirtier. Kurt’s conundrum was that he wanted to ride the fence of being the cool “non-rockstar” like all of his idols, but his narcissism wanted to be accepted by a large audience as being cool for playing that part.
Say what you want about Skynyrd being overrated, but before them, no band really gave a voice to the South in rock music. Many rock bands had roots in Southern music, but before Skynyrd, you really only had the Allman’s that were an actual Southern band playing rock music. However, the reason I feel that Skynyrd is more important than all the other Southern bands that you speak of such as Marshall Tucker and Stillwater is that Skynyrd brought a rawer, more decadent, somewhat “metal” darkness to the genre. There was an element of a heavy atmosphere in their work even though it was still genuinely Southern due to their minor chord riffs and their tones. Where you had Marshall Tucker, The Outlaws, Stillwater, Wet Willie, the CDB, Grinderswitch, early .38 Special, etc. all closer to the country/folky side of music and a looser nature with influences from bands such of bands like the Allman’s, Little Feat, and the Grateful Dead thrown in, you see a remarkably different texture from Skynyrd. Skynyrd was not afraid to explore gritty topics and socio-political concerns with blunt lyrics such as “Things Going On,” “Needle And The Spoon,” “Saturday Night Special,” “On The Hunt,” “All I Can Do Is Write About It,” etc. while the other’s may have written about them, but it a much more esoteric way. Molly Hatchet was heavier, but they also came years later, but Ronnie actually played a large part in writing arrangements and directing rehearsals for the guys, and he was originally supposed to produce the first album.
Legend has it that the reason Street Survivors was markedly different than the previous albums was because of Steve Gaines, and Ronnie actually planning to leave the band and put Steve in charge. Some rumors state that Ronnie was planning on producing and writing with the band, but Steve would be the new lead man, and Ronnie was planning to make an outlaw country album and career. It’s said that he was ready to leave the road due to him trying to calm down, but I think he also noticed the changing tide in rock music, and he was ready to bow out.
There was a lot more depth to Ronnie than he is given credit for, and those albums have very few bad tracks, and the b-sides from them (ex. “Was I Right Or Wrong” “”Down South Jukin'”” were mostly killer tracks also.
Smokey J.
January 5, 2016 @ 1:39 pm
Never got the appeal of Nirvana or Pearl Jam, myself, even though I guess I was the right age. Truthfully, I was mostly listening to Brooks and Dunn, Garth, Travis, Clint and all that in the early 90’s. 🙂 I definitely wasn’t one of the cool kids.
I did really like Smashing Pumpkins. I thought their stuff was a lot more interesting than the grunge stuff. Nine Inch Nails, Beck, Weezer, were also all in my mind superior to Nirvana as far as the 90’s rock scene goes. What I get from most of the grunge stuff is “I’m sad for no apparent reason and I’m going to drone on about it in an incoherent and bland way”.
Different strokes for different folks, though. I know people who Kurt really touched with his music.
Six String Richie
January 5, 2016 @ 1:45 pm
Listen to a band called Squirrel Bait.
They were from Louisville, KY and when they were in high school they released an EP and an album. This was around 1986. Husker Du and Naked Raygun were big fans of the band when they were active.
Squirrel Bait basically was Nirvana before grunge was a thing, but they had much better lyrics and more of a punk sound. Peter Searcy’s vocals sound so similar to Cobain’s it’s disturbing. Grohl has acknowledged Squirrel Bait as a great band in recent years and I’d bet money Cobain listened to them and borrowed ideas.
Coop
January 6, 2016 @ 12:14 pm
Grunge was a thing in ’86. Just not really outside of Seattle/PNW. Nirvana had a very hard punk sound in its earliest inception, as did most of “grunge.”
Hawkeye
January 6, 2016 @ 4:54 am
When I think 90’s I think Metallica, Slayer, early Disciple, early Skillet, and many other metal bands. Metal was loosing fans in the 90’s, which is a real shame.
Cool Lester Smooth
January 5, 2016 @ 7:26 pm
Does Pinkerton count as post-grunge?
Because that record is everything people think Nirvana is.
Weezer is obviously a much different case from GnR, but they’re another band who would be deified if Cuomo had never made another record after going back to college.
ShadeGrown
January 5, 2016 @ 8:04 pm
I love Pinkerton. They peaked on that album.
the pistolero
January 5, 2016 @ 3:46 pm
Fuck Nirvana and the whiny bitch they road in on.
Yep. I’ve said my piece on grunge and its effects on how people regard ’80s hard rock and metal before, but I will say this again: I really don’t know what is worse, that or how mainstream rock never really progressed beyond grunge.
Fuzzy TwoShirts
January 5, 2016 @ 10:52 am
I love this band, I really do. I absolutely love the cover of “Knockin’ on Heaven’s Door.”
The lineup has never been a matter of much importance to me, since the music was good. The guitar riffs at the beginning of “Since I Don’t Have You” always felt like it belonged in “Jesus Christ Superstar” to me.
I don’t even care that today’s “Country” performers name-drop this band, you can’t expect them NOT to namedrop good music just because of petty genre boundaries. The problem comes in that these guys are totally and completely dedicated to a genre OTHER than the one they are trying to make a career in. Shoot, CCR namedropped Buck Owens, but if they’d done it to excess, or thrown it bucket-wads of fiddle and steel, they would have been no different than Thomas Rhett; trying to make it big passing off their music as something it isn’t.
Acca Dacca
January 5, 2016 @ 11:10 am
To be fair, CCR had so much country/roots influence that someone could label them country rock along with the Eagles and have a substantial argument.
Cool Lester Smooth
January 5, 2016 @ 7:29 pm
Their Heard it Through the Grape Vine cover is 100% country.
Jack Williams
January 6, 2016 @ 8:51 am
I’d say it’s closer to what later got labeled as Southern Rock. Eleven minutes long with a 6-7 minute guitar solo outro.
Maybe their most obviously country song was Looking For a Reason.
RD
January 6, 2016 @ 8:55 am
Tearin’ Up The Country:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAAqLnuuKFw
Looking for a Reason
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gbr33Kns6xU
Most of the Mardi Gras album is country
RD
January 6, 2016 @ 9:01 am
Whoops:
Looking for a Reason
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTei8gZNqMo
Sounds a little like Merle
Acca Dacca
January 5, 2016 @ 11:08 am
Lots of truth in these words, brother. Made me laugh. Part of the reason GNR became so “uncool” was because they were rife with constant B.S. over mostly trivial matters from day one. And part of the reason that Appetite For Destruction has sold so well over the years is not just because of its quality and air of authenticity, but because the band was so strung out on drugs and in relations with one another that their debut doubles as a Greatest Hits record all on its own. Give or take a song here and there, the only GNR songs that are worth a damn are on that first record. But let it also be known that yes, I also think that’s a great album on its own terms.
I have one minor quibble, though: Guns N’ Roses is usually considered more of a precursor to the alternative rock revolution in the 1990s than a caboose of the hair metal train. Sure, GNR were quintessentially ’80s in look and aesthetic, even throughout most of the ’90s, but they lacked most of the silly pretense and pop sheen that characterized bands like Poison and Mötley Crüe. They also were much more rooted in blues rock stylings than pretty much anyone else they were directly competing with. They ran with the “bad boy” image that pretty much all hard rock acts aspired to at the time, but the difference was that they also lived it, for better and much worse. They help re-ignite the desire for authenticity in the mainstream that most hair metal acts were seen as lacking, which allowed bands like Nirvana to break through in the first place.
RD
January 5, 2016 @ 11:28 am
When did Guns ‘n Roses become “uncool?” What became “cool?”
“Give or take a song here and there, the only GNR songs that are worth a damn are on that first record.”
This is not true. Their Greatest Hits album has only three songs from Appetite for Destruction. Use Your Illusion I and II are excellent albums. They are not as great as Appetite for Destruction, but what is? There is some filler on those albums, but there are too many good songs for just one album. Lies, though not really an album, is also excellent. The Spaghetti Incident would be remembered as a good side project if it hadn’t been the last release of the original lineup.
Acca Dacca
January 5, 2016 @ 11:44 am
For someone who actively complains about Nirvana you don’t seem to have grasped how they affected the music scene that GNR was a part of. Or was that intended as irony?
As for the comment on AFD having their best songs, I stand by that assertion. As far as I’m concerned, when Axl decided the band should be exploring art rock territory is where they lose me. Their double album isn’t without merit, it’s just pompous and overwrought, which AFD was not. GNR Lies is good until Axl starts insulting everyone and their brother with the latter songs because of an inflated idea of self-importance. That’s the one plus I willfully give to Nirvana over GNR: the public service microphone was forced on Cobain, while Axl was chomping at the bit to get his hands on it and spread his hateful vitriol.
And I’d wager that “The Spaghetti Incident?” would be more fondly remembered if the Charles Manson song wasn’t tacked on the end. It wasn’t cool, it wasn’t edgy, it was just in bad taste.
RD
January 5, 2016 @ 11:55 am
I fully grasp what Nirvana did to the rock music scene. I just don’t regard what they did as “cool.” G’nR was good enough and cool enough to share the stage with the Stones, Elton John, Queen, Tom Petty, etc. Nirvana was never cool and the people who worship them are losers.
I don’t really have an opinion on the Manson song. I don’t think it was cool or edgy, but I also don’t think that it affected the album one way or the other… I saw G ‘n R live once and Izzy came up on stage when they played Down on the Farm. That was pretty fucking cool.
Acca Dacca
January 5, 2016 @ 12:11 pm
Okay, I think I’ve adequately established my dislike for Nirvana and appreciation for GNR, so keep that in mind when I say this: if we were to take a poll of which band is “cooler” among general music fans, Nirvana would come out on top. They have the elitist and popular opinion cornered. There’s a spirited dissent against them, but it’s certainly the minority. If you think that just losers respect them you’re living under a rock. The fact that you already had someone telling you to quit insulting the band should tell you all you need to know.
Acca Dacca
January 5, 2016 @ 11:45 am
It’s also important to note that many music fans I’ve encountered in the modern world think of GNR as “uncool”, making that hipster comment from Trigger in the article a little confusing to me.
Trigger
January 5, 2016 @ 11:49 am
The hipster reference was not to Guns N’ Roses, it was to the crowds at Coachella.
Acca Dacca
January 5, 2016 @ 12:18 pm
Oh. Well, I don’t know jack about Coachella, but since it’s the original lineup, seems like there’ll be plenty of hipsters embracing the band in an “ironic” way.
Cool Lester Smooth
January 5, 2016 @ 7:33 pm
Anyone claiming that GnR is “uncool” is a pretentious twat.
I’ve kind of grown out of them, but Appetite For Destruction is a perfect, 12 song distillation of adolescent rage.
And My Michelle is a great country-adjacent song.
Acca Dacca
January 6, 2016 @ 7:38 am
Never said that was my opinion, but I’ve met plenty of people that say as much. But they’re also mostly the kind of hipsters that categorize everything before 1991 colloquially as “Dad rock” and “hair metal” without discrimination.
Trigger
January 5, 2016 @ 11:54 am
“I have one minor quibble, though: Guns N”™ Roses is usually considered more of a precursor to the alternative rock revolution in the 1990s than a caboose of the hair metal train.”
I would consider them both, once again speaking to the versatility the band struck in a short time period.
Acca Dacca
January 5, 2016 @ 12:18 pm
Touche. Good point.
Six String Richie
January 5, 2016 @ 1:52 pm
They were a very interesting bridge between the two movements. Some members of GNR had the punk look and attitude of a ’90s act and they were less polished then 80’s acts (no lame keyboards or synths). But they definitely went for an arena sound.
Jessica
January 5, 2016 @ 11:17 am
The reason gnr became uncool is cause axl is a certified schizophrenic and Gary Allan has screwed his baby mama for years seriously
… And don’t ever diss Cobain again seriously not in my presence
Chris
January 5, 2016 @ 11:31 am
Cobain blows
RD
January 5, 2016 @ 11:34 am
Correction: Cobain blew, and then he blew his bitchy, whiny, sad little head off….
BJones
January 5, 2016 @ 11:23 am
“I Used to Love Her” was basically country.
Jessica
January 5, 2016 @ 11:45 am
Chris and RD: y’all are obviously schizophrenic as well why are we even discussing a washed up hair band like gnr on a supposedly traditional country board?
Maybe it has to do with the fact you mentioned Kurt blew his head off so did Gary Allan s third wife this is starting to sound like six degrees of Kevin Bacon or something hey someone recently said Allan herzberg looked like a fat Kevin Bacon we may be onto something here … And hasn’t bacon been gigging around trashville? I rest my case
Tom
January 5, 2016 @ 12:10 pm
Not to split hairs, but the “original” lineup of Guns N’ Roses was Axl, Izzy, Tracii Guns, Ole Beach, and Rob Gardner. Guns, Beach, and Gardner were replaced by Slash, Duff, and Steven Adler within the first year of their existence and before they recorded anything.
Acca Dacca
January 5, 2016 @ 12:22 pm
Commonly, the first record is what cements a lineup as original. AC/DC had a completely different lineup before cutting their first record with Bon Scott.
hock84
January 5, 2016 @ 12:35 pm
As a HUGE Guns N Roses fan, I will say this: they definitely are not country, and not southern rock either, but they do definitely have some country-ish and southern rock-ish songs and elements to some of their songs. Like Trigger said, parts of Paradise City have a southern rock flavor to them, as well as the second half of GNR Lies and several songs off the Use Your Illusion Albums. In the promo period leading up to the release of the Use Your Illusions, Axl actually once said to Kurt Loder in an interview with MTV that the first four songs on UYI II were like “the South will rise again” (lol) or something very close to that. Check out those songs–Civil War, 14 Years, Yesterdays, and Knockin on Heaven’s Door. Plus, as I said, there were several other songs exemplifying these country/southern rock influences.
And as others have stated, both Axl and Izzy were originally from Indiana, so they surely heard their fair share of country/heartland rock there.
Lastly, and then I’ll cut myself off (because I could go on and on about this, and GNR in general,) but Trigger is 110% right when he talks about their authenticity and how real they were, and how that made them so great and how it is a big part of why they resonated so much with so many people. They were presented to you as is, with all their musical talent, ability, and charisma, but also with all their warts, problems, and issues. And Lord knows that all of “popular”/mainstream music these days could use some more raw, gritty realness, but ESPECIALLY, and most of all, mainstream pop country. Good God. If only all these posers in pop country who love GNR and often seem like they want to be GNR could actually be just 5% as authentic as GNR was, maybe their music would actually have a chance of being tolerable.
They did in fact spawn/inspire/influence many cheap imitation wannabes (that are in the WRONG GENRE) that have raped our ears with their “music,” but you can’t blame GNR for that. Every great act will have cheap knockoffs following in their wake trying to piggyback off their success. As Trigger said, even though GNR never even tried to be country, they STILL have enough songs to where a true country fan who can’t stand Welcome to the Jungle, etc., could still put together a decent-sized playlist of GNR songs that are country enough, and surely more country than 90% of the absolute garbage on the radio today.
RD
January 5, 2016 @ 1:34 pm
Who were the cheap imitations wannabes? I can’t really think of anything that followed that combined the metal/bluesy rock/punk of G’nR. The only bands that came even close were Beautiful Creatures and Buckcherry. Buckcherry’s first album is very good and Beautiful Creatures’s first album is really good, as well. They both fell off after that. The Black Crowes are great, but they stayed with the hard rock/blues sound and never ventured into the punk/metal realms…
hock84
January 5, 2016 @ 1:58 pm
You’re right, there weren’t really any watered-down GNRs, that followed, I was speaking more about the current, mainstream “country” acts that are really just bad, corporate rock with a cowboy hat and southern drawl, that mention GNR and/or cover their songs (although I will say I think Carrie Underwood does a great job covering GNR and other eighties metal). Brantley Gilbert types. They don’t really sound like GNR, but they sound more like a bad, generic rock band than country. I was really just addressing Trigger’s point that GNR was great “except the band also inspired an entire generation of mainstream country performers to take the genre in an arena rock direction, with screaming guitars, screeching vocal lines, and bravado and attitude usually not welcome in a country music performance.” He eventually asked whether GNR was a sum positive or a sum negative. I was just saying that (IMO) you can’t blame Guns for people that came after them. Same way I don’t think you can blame Hank Jr. for Justin Moore, etc.
RD
January 5, 2016 @ 2:05 pm
I see what you were saying. There are a lot of terrible local country bands who love to include lots of Bon Jovi, Poison, etc. covers…
Six String Richie
January 5, 2016 @ 2:12 pm
I’m gonna get hate for this with people saying I’m jumping on the wagon after Scott Weiland died, but I’d argue Stone Temple Pilots had a lot of what you’re looking for.
Their first album was kinda weak but everything after that was quite good and very diverse. Take songs like “Pretty Penny,” “Interstate Love Song,” “Big Empty” and “Lady Picture Show.” All totally different but quite good.
Plus Weiland basically replaced Axl in Velvet Revolver and did a really good job. His solo work also is very creative and good.
hock84
January 5, 2016 @ 2:24 pm
I’m a pretty big fan of STP. I’m glad you mentioned Pretty Penny, I’ve always really liked that song, but never come across anyone else who seemed to even find it noteworthy lol. I actually think their first album is their best though. And yes, Weiland obviously did pretty much replace Axl in VR…..I think he did a great job singing on Fall to Pieces, but I’ve always thought that would be a song that Axl could do great on too. Would be cool if they played that at the reunion shows with Axl singing to hear how that sounds.
kross
January 5, 2016 @ 12:41 pm
does anyone remember that time Van Halen showed up in a Hank JR video in the 80″s? My name is Bocephus I think it was. I think the same thing that made it ok for those guys to pal around with JR, is the same thing that made it ok to like GNR.
Enjoy Every Sandwich
January 5, 2016 @ 12:43 pm
Maybe it”™s a little too guitar heavy to call country, but the reminiscent vibe of “Sweet Child ”˜O Mine” could easily be stripped down into a country song if one desired
Wouldn’t call it country but Sheryl Crow did do a stripped down version of that song.
scott
January 5, 2016 @ 2:03 pm
Yep, she did a nice job of it.
hoptowntiger94
January 5, 2016 @ 2:11 pm
Y’all are talking a different language (literally, I had to look-up fräuleins), But, it’s cool.
Cool Lester Smooth
January 5, 2016 @ 7:35 pm
Have you never seen Raiders of the Lost Arc?!
Justin
January 5, 2016 @ 2:18 pm
I have always felt Metallica influenced some of the country we hear today like Brantley Gilbert and Eric Church.
Mule
January 5, 2016 @ 4:03 pm
Metallica covered Skynyrd’s “Tuesday’s Gone” and James Hetfield covered Waylon’s “Don’t Y’all Think This Outlaw Bit’s Done Got Outta Hand”, so…yeah.
diesel doctor
January 5, 2016 @ 4:21 pm
I always thought GNR was a “nerf” version of Rose Tattoo,
Mule
January 5, 2016 @ 7:17 pm
I’m glad this discussion is taking place regarding GN’R. It gripes me to no end that they get lumped into the “hair metal” thing (which is not what we called it, those of us that were around then, it was pop or bubblegum metal if anything). They were more a Stones/Aerosmith throwback. Kind of in a direct line from those guys. And because of them, a really wonderful sub-genre came along in the late ’80s that may best be described as “sleaze rock” for those that need to label every damn thing.
Bands like Little Caesar, the Four Horsemen, Junkyard, Raging Slab, Circus of Power, and others started popping up here and there, all with that Stones/Free/Humble Pie crunch. That was my favorite type of rock at the time. A year or two later, the Black Crowes and the London Quireboys would take it back to the Faces and the Stones even more directly, to a very satisfying end.
However, the “sleaze rockers” all had hints of outlaw country, Memphis soul, and southern rock in them. Listen to Junkyard’s “Simple Man” (not the same song as Skynyrd’s) or the Four Horsemen’s “Tired Wings” or Raging Slab’s “Don’t Dog Me” or Little Caesar’s cover of “Chain of Fools” – all just good rock and roll without the aqua net.
Unfortunately it was very short lived thanks to Seattle’s mess. But GnR ushered in a brief but exciting moment of rock and roll – which is all it should be called in the end.
And yeah, Use Your Illusion could have easily been pared down to one killer album. Axl’s ambitions got the best of him.
RD
January 5, 2016 @ 7:27 pm
Tesla is also a great hard rock band that is wrongly lumped in with “glam” or “hair” metal.
Mule
January 5, 2016 @ 7:40 pm
True. Their influences were front and center on that “Five Man Acoustical Band” album, and their “We’re No Good Together” shares that very Southern Rock formula of the double-time ending as well!
TheCheapSeats
January 5, 2016 @ 9:58 pm
Another band that gets thrown into the hair metal category that really doesn’t belong is Cinderella. Sure, they had the look, but were much more of a blues rock band than hair metal. Especially after their first album.
Great White is another. The original, not the splintered versions that exist today.
Marky Mark
January 11, 2016 @ 5:52 pm
Long forgotten by most, but another great band from that era was The Dogs D’amour. They came out of Britain the same time as the Quireboys. Check out their album In the Dynamite Jet Saloon for some great Rolling Stones style rock but with totally its own flavor. I love the Quireboys but I definitely rate the Dogs much higher and much more original. Based on the bands you mentioned liking, G’n’R and their “sleaze rock” offspring,you’d love the Dogs.
ShadeGrown
January 5, 2016 @ 8:10 pm
I have included “Patience” on some country playlists before. Also, “Don’t Follow” by Alice In Chains and “Spoke In The Wheel” by Black Label Society. I think Zakk Wylde and Jerry Cantrell could churn out some really good country/southern rock if they teamed up.
RD
January 5, 2016 @ 8:14 pm
Zakk Wylde played with The Allman Brothers a couple times.
Mule
January 5, 2016 @ 8:36 pm
Zakk’s band Pride and Glory were just plain ol’ Southern Metal. Kinda like Blackfoot (in fact, Zakk’s vocals are similar to Medlocke’s). I liked their one album infinitely better than all his Black Label Society stuff.
ShadeGrown
January 6, 2016 @ 5:25 am
He has resurrected Pride and Glory and will be releasing an album in the first half of this year, I believe.
Al
January 5, 2016 @ 9:18 pm
Maybe if arena rock can actually come back, all the FGL-n-friendz fans will go back to that and leave country forever.
And remember how much better genuine rock music sounds than its chicken fried derivative.
Adrian
January 6, 2016 @ 1:03 am
They weren’t musically country, but they were middle America. And unlike Shania Twain and Taylor Swift they didn’t pretend to be country artists. I still listen to “November Rain” once a while on a cold rainy night. Brings back memories of my college days. God bless GNR.
Boatwrong
January 6, 2016 @ 6:21 am
When I hear “Paradise City”, I always think about Clemson. I spent 6.5 years getting two degrees there, and “the grass is green and the girls are pretty”.
Adrian
January 9, 2016 @ 6:24 pm
I heard “November Rain” and “Sweet Child of Mine” frequently in my college dorm. When I was getting my degree, the grass was green about 4 months out of the year, but most of the girls weren’t pretty. It has been said that 9 out of 10 girls in California are beautiful, and the 10th one goes to Stanford. Maybe it’s just me, I tend to prefer small town American sweethearts from the midwest and the south. Many of the females I attended college with were elitist feminist Hillary Clinton types. But one can always dream of Paradise City, especially after a few drinks.
Racer53
January 6, 2016 @ 9:51 am
Never thought I would see GNR mentioned here! Someone in GNR or maybe the entire band must have had some country influence. They have several songs that could have as easily been country. I was in I believe 4th grade and was watching MTV (you know back in the day when they played videos) and saw Welcome To The Jungle. I was awestruck. I can still remember it like it just happened. To me it was what a rock band should look and sound like. I wore out their albums up till Spaggheti Incident. Which I also like, but not on the level of their first 4. To me no rock band measures up after GNR. It’s a shame some of the other 80’s rock bands get a bad rap. There was some shit music of course, but some bands get discounted for no other reason than the time period they played in.
CAH
January 6, 2016 @ 1:05 pm
I would add “Patience” to the list of sultry songs that could have been sung by a country singer.
The reuion of G n R is great news to me.
I plan to catch a show or 2.
Good article.
ChrisNSC
January 6, 2016 @ 1:35 pm
I’m sure there were some country influences in their music. I remember reading in a guitar magazine that Slash’s favorite guitar solo was Mick’s Taylor’s “Dead Flowers.” That to me has always been the Stones’ best effort at a country song.
Love this article and the conversation.
marky mark
January 6, 2016 @ 8:06 pm
G’n’R used to play dead flowers with regularity on the Use Your Illusion tour. Gilby Clark (Izzy’s replacement) recorded it on a solo album with Axl singing back up. They also used to play part of Wild Horses. they were clearly stones influenced, and they chose to play two of the Stones most country sounding songs. Along with Used to Lover Her, I would also cite You Ain’t The first off of UYI I as another clearly country influenced song of their own creation. I would love to think Izzy will return, Axl will lose some weight (and regain his voice) and they will record new music to make this a creative endeavor, but i think thats too much to hope. But as others here have noted, this was a band in its heyday that was authentic and their music has endured as a result. i would still of see them on the reunion, even if its just a cash grab.
The Ghost of Buckshot Jones
January 6, 2016 @ 2:24 pm
Speaking of “patience” in a Country rotation..
S&R did a pretty sweet setup with it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfXY4WlFjjg
Dusty45s
January 7, 2016 @ 10:46 am
I grew up with only country & western music playing in our house (Willie Nelson, Chris LeDoux, Ian Tyson…), but just as I was reaching my teens my estranged grandfather spent some time with us shortly before he passed. I vividly remember him introducing 12 year old me to Louis Armstrong & Guns n Roses’ Appetite for Destruction, both of which remain among my favourites to this day. Great article, Trig.
Lone Wolf
January 9, 2016 @ 3:32 am
Southern Rock? Just listened to some songs by The Outlaws the other night. Their cover of ‘Ghost Riders In The Sky’ still packs a punch, IMHO!! I’d love to hear of some newer groups like them, Skynyrd, Marshall Tucker, Molly Hatchet, Rossington Collins, etc. be the next wave in country music, although I’m sure todays country fans might consider them too heavy compared to the bro-country guys and classic rock stations might consider them too country, even though they’ve been influenced by the above mentioned groups (in addition to others). Hearing ‘Sweet Home Alabama’ on WDSY 107.9 here in Pittsburgh, Pa, is still a little odd after hearing it on WDVE 102.5 for the last 40+ years. Regarding G ‘n R? Loved the band, didn’t much care for Axl. Great range and power, great stage presence, knows how to command a crowd…. just not into his sound. Trigger, I do hear some southern rock/blues/ country influences in stuff on ‘Appetite For Destruction’. Axl is from Indiana, too, much like David Lee Roth and John Cougar Mellencamp (JCM definitely had country influences in his music, especially the later stuff). I’m interested to see how well the reunion goes. Wouldn’t be surprised if Axl completely ruins everything again, though.
Corey Koehler
January 9, 2016 @ 3:19 pm
You make some great observations and I agree with a lot of what you are saying. But why is there no reference to their Lies album? To obvious?
Trigger
January 9, 2016 @ 4:22 pm
I think there were country and Southern influences throughout their albums. “Lies” included. I did mention “Patience” from the album. I didn’t mean to purposefully exclude it, but that’s what tends to happen with EPs.