John Prine’s Prospects for the Country Music Hall of Fame
In all likelihood, the committee that is fielded by the Country Music Association to choose the annual inductees to the Country Music Hall of Fame has already made their decision of who the 2020 inductees will be. The rumor on the Row is that an announcement of the 2020 inductees is coming “in a few weeks.” But with everything locked down due to the Coronavirus—including the Hall of Fame itself where the announcement usually occurs—there’s little need to rush it. In fact re-opening the Hall of Fame with the announcement that usually happens in early spring might make for a cool moment.
With the recent death of John Prine (also at the hands of COVID-19), the question has been posed by many about the legendary songwriter’s prospects of ever being inducted into the Country Music Hall of Fame. It’s an interesting discussion point for sure, and one with a few important qualifiers.
Candidates for the Hall of Fame are selected in three categories. 1) Modern Era – Eligible for induction 20 years after they first achieve “national prominence.” 2) Veterans Era – Eligible for induction 45 years after they first achieve “national prominence.” 3) Non-Performer, Songwriter, and Recording and/or Touring Musician active prior to 1980 – Rotates every 3 years. With a non performer, Jerry Bradley, selected in 2019, and a musician, Johnny Gimble, selected in 2018, it would be songwriter’s turn up to bat in 2020. Songwriters may have been performers during their careers as well, but are mostly recognized for their work in composition.
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Hypothetically, John Prine could be waiting in the wings as the Hall of Fame’s 2020 inductee in the Songwriter category. Though this distinction usually goes to someone with more commercial success than Prine—meaning a songwriter who wrote a slew of country radio hits for others over their career—if Prine ever gets into the Country Hall of Fame, it’s likely to be in this category.
And why wouldn’t he be considered? John Prine is regarded as one of the greatest songwriters of all time. He’s called the Mark Twain of songwriting, and has been lauded as the best by the likes of Bob Dylan, Kris Kristofferson, and nearly every other living songwriter, and many who are deceased. John Prine’s influence is unquestionable.
And it’s not like Prine didn’t write any hits either. George Strait had a #1 with the Prine co-penned “I Just Want to Dance With You” in 1988. As we now know, David Allan Coe’s hit “You Never Even Called Me By My Name” was co-written by Prine with Steve Goodman. Even more modern stars like Miranda Lambert sing the praises of Prine. She covered his song “That’s The Way The World Goes ‘Round,” and performed it on the 2010 CMA Awards. And of course this doesn’t mention the countless covers of Prine songs like “Angel From Montgomery,” “Paradise,” “Sam Stone,” and a slew of others from other prominent names.
Complicating matters though is a stipulation in the Country Music Hall of Fame’s nominating guidelines that recuses candidates from being considered for the Hall of Fame in the year after they pass away. Consider it a sympathy clause, which is probably a smart move. But if the picks were already made this year before Prine passed away, would his nomination still be allowed to go through?
Something that we’ve seen over the years with the Country Music Hall of Fame is to be seriously considered, you need a good ground game in Nashville. Ray Stevens didn’t get in before Hank Williams Jr. due to his catalog and influence. It’s because he knew how to lobby for it and get in front of the right people. Though Prine was never a commercial powerhouse, he was incredibly well-beloved in Nashville, and across the entire industry. We saw that in the massive outpouring of love and remembrance after his passing. Consider this a strong asset for Prine’s prospects.
But the biggest problem is that these performing songwriters like John Prine end up getting sifted into no man’s land when it comes to Hall of Fame consideration. Right beside Prine, Guy Clark and Townes Van Zandt are also regarded as some of the greatest songwriters of all time, and penned major commercial hits upon occasion as well. But they were never powerhouses of commercial hits, nor were their performing careers significant enough to be Hall of Fame worthy on their own. The influence is undeniable, but may not be dominant enough in any single category to rise to the level of Hall of Fame consideration.
But once again, that’s where John Prine makes for an exception. In 2018, John Prine was actually nominated for the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame. Unfortunately, he wasn’t able to garner enough votes to be inducted, but it does prove that he can be regarded as having a Hall of Fame career. And how embarrassing would it be if Cleveland honored Prine before Nashville, where John made his home and was a pillar of the community for much of his career?
But of course, that brings us to the biggest obstacle for John Prine. The Country Music Hall of Fame is arguably the most difficult Hall of Fame to get into in American culture—sports, music, or otherwise. Their stipulation of only letting one inductee in each year in the three categories has resulted in such an incredible glut of talent being left on the outside looking in—especially in the Veteran’s Era, and among songwriters—choosing Prine ultimately means you’re not choosing someone else who also seems extremely qualified to get in. It’s good that the Country Music Hall of Fame hasn’t let anyone and everyone in, which would dilute the importance of the distinction. But still, you would think there would be a lane for someone such as John Prine to at least be considered.
So the sad prospect is, unless John Prine miraculously slips through this year, he would have to wait another three years at the least to be considered again, and then would run up against a list of other qualified songwriters that also feel worthy and well past due for induction. In other words, in the current environment and under the current rules, John Prine being inducted into the Country Music Hall of Fame will be very, very difficult.
But there should be some avenue for songwriters who were also landmark performers such as John Prine, Guy Clark, Townes Van Zandt, and Lucinda Williams to get in. Sure, there is a slew of other names that also seem to be insanely qualified who are still not in. How is Hank Williams Jr. still not inducted, or Jerry Lee Lewis? But there should be a lane for songwriters that are quite literally considered the best ever at their craft like John Prine.
But until that lane opens up, let’s not pretend John Prine’s legacy isn’t secure. He’s already in the Songwriter’s Hall of Fame, and the Country Music Hall of Fame honored him with a display in 2017. John Prine already is a Hall of Famer in the minds of most anyone who reveres great songwriting. And he always has been, and always will be.
Conrad Fisher
April 14, 2020 @ 10:21 am
Love Is On a Roll is another great John Prine/Roger Cook co-write that went #1 for Don Williams in the early 80s.
My wife bought us tickets to see John Prine at a Festival in KY last year, and it was the best concert I’ve ever been to. (Amanda Shires opened for him.) I’d also been going to the Station Inn a lot last year, and he showed up several times to sing a few tunes with Jim Rooney. Go see the older acts while they’re still around!
Kevin Smith
April 14, 2020 @ 10:59 am
I had no idea Prine wrote or co-wrote Love is on a Roll. Great song! Had no idea Don Willams had covered Prine. But I well remember when that song was a hit.. Way cool. I don’t doubt he gets in eventually, but I think the line before him is long. Dean Dillon for example.
On the Jerry Lee front, I spoke to his son Lee about it this February, and he told me his dad would absolutely accept it should an induction ever come. He said the family has been waiting for this a long time and they also agree Hank Jr should be in also. Hank and Jerry Lee are friends by the way. Hank credits Lee with inspiring him musically.
Trigger
April 14, 2020 @ 12:13 pm
With John Prine and Guy Clark, I think you can make a strong case that they’re not just critically-acclaimed, but they proved to have wide popularity and appeal with their songs. It may not be as much as other Nashville songwriters, but they did prove they could write a hit.
Brian B
April 14, 2020 @ 4:44 pm
Interesting that Lucinda Williams was mentioned toward the end of the article. She has to be John Prine’s female counterpart for all the same reasons. And like Prine, she penned songs that became hits for other artists, most notably “Passionate Kisses” for Mary Chapin Carpenter and “The Nights Too Long” for Patty Loveless. And, like Prine, as an artist she was virtually ignored by mainstream radio as rock stations considered her too country while country stations considered her too rock. It was these two artists in particular for whom the Americana genre of sub-genre was more or less created. They actually did share a musical ticket several years back in Chicago. But in one category they were opposite. While Prine became more country in the latter part of his career, Lucinda was more country in the early part of hers, just as Linda Ronstadt was.
Trigger
April 14, 2020 @ 10:42 pm
Yes, Lucinda Williams as well. I definitely think she fits in this category of very influential songwriters who penned a few commercial hits, and should be considered for the Hall.
Kent
April 14, 2020 @ 10:39 am
“John Prine already is a Hall of Famer in the minds of most anyone who reveres great songwriting. And he always has been, and always will be.”
True!!
Doug
April 14, 2020 @ 5:34 pm
I agree with Kent. Great talents John, Lucinda, and Guy don’t need HOF validation. Their music speaks for itself.
A.B.
April 14, 2020 @ 10:53 am
If voting is finalized and he’s the inductee, people are going to be upset the announcement wasn’t held before the stay at home orders went into effect.
If voting isn’t finalized and he has the most votes, he’s now ineligible because he passed away.
Either way is a catch 22.
At this point, they should just make it a virtual announcement with Zoom or something. Have it be the inductees, the execs, and reporters and put it on Youtube. Then they can still hold a better in person announcement later when everyone can get together.
Trigger
April 14, 2020 @ 12:15 pm
I just don’t see a whole lot of need to rush it. If they announce now, it will just get crushed in all of the Coronavirus news. Making a big deal about reopening the Hall of Fame and announcing the new inductees I think would be a great event. If it gets into the summer, perhaps you announce anyway, but why not wait a few more weeks and see if you can’t hold it in the rotunda as always, even if you have to limit numbers and have social distancing.
Joe
April 14, 2020 @ 6:44 pm
Based on Trigger’s linked article, the rule around death is written as “Each year, at a date chosen by the Association, the Hall of Fame Nominating Committees will, by majority vote conducted by secret ballot, nominate no less than 10 nor more than 20 Hall of Fame candidates as official nominees for each category to be inducted in that year. Deceased persons must have been dead one year prior to nomination.”
I don’t know the exact voting timeline, but I am very confident in saying that the nomination of 10-20 candidates was completed before the coronavirus hit. Thus Prine should still be eligible if he was nominated while alive. This also asked a question I was wondering which is whether he would be eligible in 3 years as I didn’t know if the “death clause” was 1 year or 1 voting cycle after death.
TXMUSICJIM
April 14, 2020 @ 11:01 am
So many should be in Prine, Jerry Jeff, TVZ, Guy Clark, DAC, Hank Jr, Gary Stewart, Gram Parsons all deserving of induction. I think Hank Jr gets in at some point I think Maybe Clark and Prine all well loved in Nashville by their peers. Time will Tell. My fingers are certainly crossed. RIP John!
James
April 14, 2020 @ 11:53 am
I know one person with inside knowledge who says that voting definitely took place, but he has no idea who was considered, let along who won. If so, then I would think that the songwriter induction this year goes to Bob McDill, partially based on the fact that he donated all his handwritten songs on 100+ legal pads to the Hall, and they gladly accepted it and even treated the donated items as if they were extremely valuable. Add to that that McDill has the 2nd-most number of charted county songs in history, and it makes sense to me.
Now, I’m gonna say something that’s going to get me slammed, but it has to be said: the Hall of Fame typically takes into account the person’s, you know, fame. Prine is more well-known and respected by 2 very small groups: (1) those in the industry and (2) a core group of hard-core fans. I saw a lot more outcry about Prine’s death than, say, Bill Withers (whose death was announced 2 days earlier) we measure outcry as “words from other famous people”, but when I mentioned it to people I know, I couldn’t find a single person who knew who Prine was, but plenty knew who Withers was.
Don’t get mad at me for saying he wasn’t famous enough. I’m just saying that as one who has observed the Hall voting over 30-40 years. Not saying I like that fame plays a part. I’m just saying that it’s indisputable that it does.
(Note: I am very aware that Withers was not a country artist and will never be considered for the Country Music Hall; I’m using him as a comparison because the announcement of their deaths was so close together).
Of course, the counterpoint to this is that the Hall voters are industry insiders. But I still don’t think he gets in this year, because he wasn’t one of the ones there was buzz about in January when articles and written pieces began speculating who might get in this year. Lots of mentions of the same usual suspects (Hank Jr, Tanya, etc, with songwriters being McDill, Dillon, etc). Nowhere did I see Prine’s name come up.
Trigger
April 14, 2020 @ 12:19 pm
The simple fact is that John Prine was never enough of a star to get in via the Modern or Veterans Era categories, and I think it would be unreasonable to think that he will, especially with how backed up they are with worthy nominees. He’s gonna have to get in via songwriting where popularity is not as important. But it seems with a lot of the songwriter inductees, you’re almost discounted if you had a performing career too. John Prine wrote hits and standards, and was a well-beloved performer. It seems to me that guys like him and Guy Clark should at least be considered, and their performing career considered an asset, not the reason they should be overlooked.
James
April 14, 2020 @ 1:10 pm
Trigger, I agree completely with your main point here, that a performer with limited recording success is at a disadvantage when compared to a non-performing writer.
Conrad Fisher
April 14, 2020 @ 12:32 pm
I’m thrilled if Mcdill gets it. He is in my top 5 and possibly deserves it more than John, I’m not sure. Things like that are so difficult to quantify. Both are in my top 5.
Interesting comparison to Bill Withers. I get it, but I thought everybody knew who John Prine was haha.
King Honky Of Crackershire
April 14, 2020 @ 5:37 pm
Trigger did a list some years ago of the 85 greatest songwriters of all time. It was a strange list. Bob McDill didn’t make it in.
Kevin Smith
April 14, 2020 @ 12:29 pm
James you needn’t worry about your statements on famous enough. Its logical that in a hall of FAME you put the MOST FAMOUS folks in first. Or in the case of songwriters you need some type of standard to measure to. A guy like McDill has lots of charting hit songs that are very well known. He’s a no brainer to go in ahead of a Townes or Prine. I do think though that once most of the super recognizable l folks are in, then we’ll see a move towards artists who were more influencers than hit makers. Enter Townes, Clark, Prine, Parsons.
Black Boots
April 14, 2020 @ 12:38 pm
Halls were made for people like Prine
Jake Cutter
April 14, 2020 @ 12:48 pm
It’s in the name.
Joe
April 14, 2020 @ 6:49 pm
I would view Prine’s prospects as very grim. Heck, Trigger’s own hall of fame prediction article made no mention of Prine among the 11 people spotlighted for the songwriter ballot. As Trigger said, there is a backlog of people more likely to get in than Prine now, and to be honest I think being dead is going to hurt his chances in future elections if voters want someone living to celebrate the occasion with. Based on this, I would be pretty darn surprised if Prine ever makes it, at least without expanding the inductees per year.
Ian
April 14, 2020 @ 8:17 pm
I think Trigger makes an excellent point about the sort of odd middle ground Prine sits in for a performing songwriter. Too well known as a performer for the songwriter slot and too far from mainstream for performer. But I think John would be just as pleased to have his fans listen to his music while looking for cadillacs on Ebay and having a beer.
DRK
April 14, 2020 @ 8:48 pm
Following on several comments, maybe this shows an important gap in the CMHOF. There are significant people with a variety of skills who have been inspirers rather than well-known performers. They’re not the big hit songwriters or the DJs or businessmen and women who dominate the Non-Performer category or the fantastic players. But they have inspired those who have become stars. They probably deserve their own category. This is where you would find John Prine and Guy Clark, Rodney Crowell and Steve Earle and the many singer-songwriters who are far more popular with other performers and other songwriters than they are with the general public.
Waynetrain
April 14, 2020 @ 10:36 pm
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This is so true, sad but true. And saddest of all for Ray Stevens, a man who truly deserves induction into the Hall (just not before Hank, Jr., Jerry Lee, or Ralph Stanley). His special day was soured on social media by people (correctly) declaring that Bocephus deserved it first. I felt/feel bad for Ray and blame the Country Music Foundation/Country Music Association for using these inductions as a marketing tool instead of basing them on a candidate’s true historical significance.
By marketing tool, I mean that the CMHOF wants its living inductees to see appear at these induction announcements (and later the actual induction ceremonies) smiling and humbly accepting this honor. This is one of the reasons Hank, Jr. hasn’t been inducted yet — they don’t think he’ll show up, and if he does, he may express his true feelings about the CMA in his remarks. And the CMHOF probably isn’t willing to risk an embarrassment on that scale.
Waynetrain
April 15, 2020 @ 10:26 pm
I apologize — my copy and paste did not work. The 1st two sentences of my post above were supposed to be the following sentences from Saving Country Music’s article. “Ray Stevens didn’t get in before Hank Williams, Jr. due to his catalog and influence. It’s because he knew how to lobby for it and get in front of the right people.”. Hope it makes more sense now.
DG
April 15, 2020 @ 1:55 am
It wasn’t a secret that Prine co-wrote “You Never Even Called Me By My Name.” On Goodman’s 1983 live album called “Artistic Hair,” he opens the show by saying, “The first song I get to sing for you tonight is a song John Prine and I wrote, and we tried to put into one song everything that had ever been in any of the country and western songs we’d ever heard. That’s why I borrowed this hat from John. David Allan Coe actually recorded this, and I’d like to thank him too. So, here’s the song…”
You can find the song on Apple Music and hear it for yourself.
Judson
April 15, 2020 @ 8:30 am
John Prine surpasses the simple label of “Country” music. Hard to define what the term even means anymore. “Americana” is more appropriate. It encompasses a much broader spectrum of music and the great singer/songwriters like Prine, Guy Clark, TVZ, and others are at home there.
Jerseyboy
April 15, 2020 @ 6:25 pm
I posted in another thread about seeing John at a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame tribute to Jimmy Rogers with an all star cast, met John at the hotel bar, but also when going into the actual Hall of Fame, he was exiting and I yelled out ‘Hey, Its John Prine’ and he was happy to be recognized. He surely should be in both halls, hes a national treasure!