The Inconvenient Truth About Vaccine Requirements at Venues
Before we begin here, a couple of critical things:
• This is not an “anti-vaxx” article, I am not an “anti-vaxxer.” I received the COVID-19 vaccine (Moderna) on April 3rd, 2021. I also have all of my other vaccinations. I would also recommend to everyone to also get all the vaccinations your medical professional recommends.
• This extremely polarizing subject is only being broached due to the severity of the potential repercussions of the policies certain venues, festivals, and promoters are currently enacting.
• I am for the right of every venue, festival, and promoter to operate their businesses as they wish, including mandating patrons show proof of vaccination if they so choose.
However, there are a significant amount of downstream ramifications to these decisions to require vaccination for entry at venues and festivals that are not being taken into account whatsoever by those making them in haste and due to public pressure, nor are they being taken into account by the media as they report on them. This is simply an effort to broach these critical issues involved in vaccine requirements so they can be considered and discussed in a broader context.
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First, everyone must understand that mandating the patrons of a music event prove vaccination status or a negative COVID test is absolutely no guarantee that attendees will indeed be vaccinated, or COVID free. As we already saw at Lollapalooza in Chicago and other events mandating proof of vaccination, fake vaccination cards and negative test results are easy to come by. Does requiring such things create a roadblock and a barrier to potential COVID carriers? Yes, it does. But like making marijuana illegal, it in no way can or will stop the unvaccinated or COVID positive from slipping through. It will only stop those who are willing to follow and respect those rules.
Secondly, if you are vaccinated, then you are no longer living in a scenario where my health is dependent on your health, or your health is dependent on anyone else’s. Everyone has access to free vaccines. Yes, breakthrough cases involving the Delta variant are concerning, but in 99.9% of those cases, they do not result in death, and rarely result in serious illness or hospitalization. If someone has chosen not to get vaccinated, they have assumed the risk of potentially falling ill due to COVID-19.
But the biggest concern with these vaccine requirements as they proliferate throughout the music industry is how they call back to an era when individuals in the United States were refused service or restricted from entering certain businesses due to discrimination. In short, these vaccine mandates being implemented throughout the music industry specifically have and will continue to disproportionately discriminate against blacks, Latinos, immigrants, other minorities, as well as disproportionately discriminate against poor whites, and other low income individuals.
Why is this? Because while the media continues to focus on white males from the South as the face of the unvaccinated and is disproportionately reporting on country music events as “outbreaks” and “superspreaders” compared to other mass gatherings, according to CDC Data, whites actually are disproportionately more likely to be vaccinated, while minorities, especially black and Latinos, are not, and in the instance of some specific communities, the disparity is in significant numbers.
There are many reasons for this disparity that many of the affluent whites calling for vaccine mandates are either overlooking, or don’t understand as they lambast the unvaccinated as lazy, stupid, anti-vaxx, or anti-science. Access and availability of vaccines continues to be a disproportionate challenge in more poor, rural, and minority communities. If you’re poor, you may not be able to take the time off of work to get the vaccine. You may be worried about missing work if you have side effects. And if you live hand-to-mouth, these concerns can be non-starters for certain individuals.
Furthermore, there is significant hesitancy among poor and minority communities on vaccines due to the systemic oppression and malfeasance that has occurred in the past. An example is the 40-year-long Tuskegee Syphilis Study that took place in Tuskegee, Alabama, where black men were told that they were receiving treatment by the CDC when they were nothing more than placebo-receiving Guinea pigs. This study—like many other examples that could be cited—happened in the epicenter of where vaccine hesitancy persists in the United States.
If you’re poor, a minority, and/or live in the South, you’re more likely to be audited by the IRS according to Pro Publica. You’re more likely to be arrested for a crime and incarcerated for a longer sentence, and not receive fair representation in the courts. Overlapping maps on IRS audits, food deserts, and other disparities directly correlates with those who are unvaccinated, and the current outbreak of the COVID virus due to the Delta variant.
As well-known progressive commentator Krystal Ball of Breaking Points said on Tuesday (8/10):
While the media has focused only on white Republicans, usually men, young men, who don’t want to get vaccinated, if you look by race, the people who are most hesitant are actually black Americans. And so some of the neighborhoods that have the lowest vaccination rates are actually overwhelmingly minority, urban neighborhoods, exactly because of Tuskegee and a million other instances of racism, and bad interactions with the American healthcare system.
There’s a significant chunk of people who aren’t getting vaccinated because they’re afraid they’re going to get charged, because every other interaction that they’ve had with the American healthcare system and you come home with a gigantic bill. You’ve got a sizable chunk that’s like, “I don’t believe you,” and I can’t really blame them for that.
One thing that should be interjected into this conversation is liberals are very confident in their position that there should be vaccine mandates … just keep in mind that you are talking about a policy that will disproportionately impact black and brown people. That is the reality of the numbers. And yes, ideologically … it is conservatives who tend to have the more hard line position on these things, and there are plenty of white Republican men who you are happy to demonize. But if you’re talking about barring people from workplaces, and restaurants, and public venues based on vaccination status, you are talking about a policy that disproportionately impacts black and brown people, and I’m not really hearing anyone in the media wanting to address that because it’s much easier to hold the position if you’re just talking about forcing a group of people that you don’t like already.
And this leads into the other concerning nature of these vaccine mandates by festivals and venues, which is the slippery slope they present. Everyone wants this pandemic to go away, and for all venues to be open and the free flow of commerce and entertainment to return. But when will these mandates be lifted? Now that we’ve adopted the precedent that venues and festivals can disallow individuals en masse from admittance, will other mandates be put in place, barring people due to other life choices, or unavoidable circumstances? May a venue ban Republicans, or Democrats? May they bar black people because they’re less likely to be vaccinated, or obese people because they’re more likely to die of COVID, under the guise of health and safety?
Though these vaccine mandates by venues and festivals are well-intentioned—and most certainly the right of owners and organizers to implement—even as presently constructed, they will divide the American population along racial, geographical, and socioeconomic lines, even before Trojan horses or other prejudices instituted under the guise of safety are enacted.
If the Delta variant, vaccine hesitancy, and the COVID-19 pandemic at large continues, these requirements by venues could very well segregate the American population culturally like we have never seen before in the modern era, with predominately affluent white vaccinated concertgoers enjoying one set of venues and festivals, and the predominately poor and minority unvaccinated relegated to another. Of course, for some, this is exactly what they want, because they look down their nose at the unvaccinated, often insulting them as opposed to attempting to understand their perspective, and addressing it.
The easy solution would be for everyone to just get vaccinated. But as we’ve seen with many high-profile breakthrough cases recently, including Reba McEntire and her partner who tested positive after being fully vaccinated, getting the shot in no way guarantees you won’t get COVID-19, it only severely restricts serious illness.
Also, despite the wide proliferation and use of the COVID-19 vaccine with generally positive results, it’s worth pointing out that the vaccine has yet to be fully approved by the FDA. It is being distributed solely off of emergency authorization. As the fact sheet from the FDA states that every vaccine recipient receives regardless of the brand, “There is no U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approved vaccine to prevent COVID-19.” Venues are demanding individuals get a vaccine that the government has yet to give full approval.
And finally, there is another concern. After I received my first shot of the Moderna COVID-19 vaccine on April 3rd, 2021, I had a severely adverse reaction that was prolonged and significant. After the adverse reaction, I spoke to Austin Public Health, who administrated the vaccine dose. I spoke to Moderna, who interviewed me about my experience. I filled out an incident report on the VAERS system. This was all requested by my doctor, who also medically advised me to not get the 2nd dose of the vaccine.
Technically, I am not “fully vaccinated” since I only received one shot, which means I would be barred from entering these venues, or attending the festivals that have put these requirements in place. As a music writer, this means I am unable to do my job, at least at venues and festivals with the vaccine requirements, and again, despite receiving a dispensation from the 2nd dose by my doctor.
And obviously, I am not the only one. For a host of reasons, numerous individuals have been medically advised not to get the vaccine, and they are being discriminated against as well. Others that have experienced similar adverse reactions are often shamed for sharing their experiences, called “anti-vaxx,” or liars. Some have refused the vaccine for religious reasons. Of course, attending music shows is not a requirement upon anyone. But that’s missing the deeper point.
And a lot of people will say, “Hey, if you don’t want to get the vaccine, then get a test. What’s the harm?” This might be a viable option for some individuals if this option is offered by a venue or festival. But the same hesitancy that persists in poor and minority groups about COVID also persists about testing. Yes, this hesitancy should be addressed, and challenged. But you won’t solve the problem by limiting people’s freedoms, or calling them stupid, or anti-science. You will change their minds by first understanding why they are hesitant, and speaking to their specific circumstances that have made the poor and minorities in the United States disproportionately distrusting of governmental and medical institutions, while attempting to punish or shame them often results them digging their heels into their position.
Instead of shaming people for not getting vaccinated, restricting them, ostracizing and isolating people who already often feel restricted and ostracized from society, musicians and venues can and should be using their platforms to speak to these marginalized communities about their concerns, and participate in outreach as opposed to isolation and restriction.
The solution to these concerns about vaccine requirements at venues is not necessarily to do away with them completely, or not address the issue at all. That is not what’s being argued here. Doing nothing may result in the closing down of the music industry entirely, especially with the way the media continues to sensationalize and stir fear among the public about what otherwise is a very real concern, and a life and death situation for some who contract COVID-19. The media and the public shame that flows to anyone willing to gather regardless of vaccination status is just as much of a dynamic to the future of live music moving forward as the virus itself.
The COVID-19 pandemic has been unprecedented. But we’ve become accustomed to habits of limiting people’s civil liberties in the name of safety when this should only be done in the most exceptional of cases. The concerns should not just be about what you’re turning away from music venues and festivals with these vaccine entry requirements and refusals of service, but who you are turning away, and what the end result of this will be for public health.
This is a critical discussion that is just not being had.
AdamAmericana
August 10, 2021 @ 6:13 pm
“This is a critical discussion that is just not being had.“
Bullshit. It’s being had but people are too busy getting drunk on their political beliefs and jacking off to vapid Facebook science “facts” to pay attention.
Stupidity kills.
Cool Lester Smooth
August 11, 2021 @ 6:59 pm
I dunno! It’s a slippery slope!!!!
Next thing you know, they’ll be requiring people to be vaccinated against the measles to attend public school!!!!!!!!!
Ronnie
August 10, 2021 @ 6:26 pm
Good gotcha article on Isbell. No one is restricted. You can get a test anywhere cheap/free and have results almost instantly.
Trigger
August 10, 2021 @ 7:08 pm
30 paragraphs and Jason Isbell wasn’t mentioned once. But if he wanted to be a more of a proactive participant as opposed to using his platform to dunk on people who think differently than him with the purpose of making his own star burn brighter and make bullies out of his fans, I would welcome it.
As I addressed in the article, certainly a Covid test is easy to obtain. But if you distrust all higher authority and for good reason, you’re not going to play ball no matter the ease. Most people can get a vaccine easily as well, but they’re choosing not to. Either we can look beyond passing judgement upon these people, or we can continue to scream in echo chambers on social media how stupid they are, and Covid can be like Groundhog Day.
Ronnie
August 10, 2021 @ 7:23 pm
Why do we have to treat some people so delicately? If you are unwilling to get a free nose swab you don’t get to go to a concert. That’s fine. Go do something else.
Trigger
August 10, 2021 @ 7:33 pm
If you ask me, I’d say go get the damn nose swab. And if you ask me, I’d say it’s pretty lazy if you refuse to. But the deeper point is these mandates will create walled gardens around music venues and events that will disproportionately restrict people already disenfranchised in society and culture. They will hear, “You must do this,” and they won’t even bother. In their minds what they will hear is, “This event/venue is not for you.” And in reality, that’s what some of the owners/promoters want them to hear.
Ronnie
August 10, 2021 @ 7:37 pm
The cost of a ticket, transportation, child care is already doing that. Something that is quick and free is nothing compared.
NorCalTrees
August 10, 2021 @ 7:34 pm
I personally agree with you. However, if we’re taking the info presented in the article as fact, coupled with a society that appears trending as more concerned with equity than equality how do we square the two? I admire your phrasing but in today’s world “treating people delicately” seems like the written version of walking in front of a claymore.
Fran
August 16, 2021 @ 2:07 pm
I don’t really care what anyone thinks. I’m gratefully vaxxed and have loved going back to concerts this summer. My feeling is that vaccine mandates (or 72 hr. clear tests) for privately owned venues might piss people off, but they will help to save a boatload of musicians who had virtually no income last year by keeping venues OPEN. When you go out to a concert, you have a responsibility to conduct yourself appropriately and do no harm to others. This is just part of it.
Jake Cutter
August 10, 2021 @ 7:43 pm
Is it easier than getting an ID to vote? Actually, it probably is for some.
Cool Lester Smooth
August 12, 2021 @ 4:29 am
Getting a Janssen or a rapid test is much, much easier than getting an ID to vote, haha.
And, unlike Voter ID laws, it actually serves the public interest.
Jake Cutter
August 13, 2021 @ 6:21 am
Fair enough, but let’s not pretend the voter ID law is anything more than politically motivated, on both sides. Each side benefits from their supposedly ethical stance. Personally I’m of the opinion that, considering one is needed for so many things in our society, it’s not too much to ask for it to be required, and it seems a little suspicious and yes hypocritical, to NOT require one when it advantages your political orientation, but then REQUIRE one when it advantages your position on public safety. Yes, the right will use that hypocrisy nefariously, but that doesn’t make it any less true.
RD
August 13, 2021 @ 6:53 am
Very true. You better believe that Republicans would capitalize on a double standard if they were smart enough to do so. One of the most incisive comments I have ever heard from the left is that Democrats believe that life begins at birth and ends at death while Republicans believe that life begins at conception and ends at birth. Republicans can fund raise off the abortion issue, but once the child is actually born, they are more than content to chuck it in a garbage can.
Jake Cutter
August 10, 2021 @ 7:28 pm
Not sure Jason will be excluding any hesitant minorities. I’ve been to a couple of his shows and they weren’t exactly diverse, even in the slightest.
Kellie
August 10, 2021 @ 6:34 pm
Thanks for this. The fact is that many with PHDs also are refusing the vax because they know some of the potential devastations. And they don’t know some of the other potential long term devastations, but they can guess. Even the creator if the mRNA technology refuses to get vaxxed and says universal vaccination is ignorant. He recommends it only for the absolute most vulnerable. As awesome as this article is, it leaves out the fact that myriads of absolutely brilliant highly credentialed scientists and docs are sounding warnings. They’re being silenced on many platforms, but they can be found. So it isn’t just the ignorant poor folk and the minorities who have been abused in the past by experiments who have concerns. I cannot imagine walking around looking at others as disease factories and feeling the urge to see their papers or else for a medical decision that they can make without you. That has to be miserable. Anyway, this was insightful. Thanks.
AdamAmericana
August 10, 2021 @ 7:14 pm
This is the perfect example of a comment with no facts to back it up. Just generic statements not based in any reality. It’s easily debunk with a single Google search.
She’s referring to Robert Malone. There’s very little information about him other than a Wiki entry that shows he’s probably not the “creator” he so claims. Wouldn’t there be a shitload about the fucking alleged creator of mRNA tech? This is how people read one or two articles and end up eating a plate full of burning feces.
“Many with PHDs”… Sure…
Kellie
August 10, 2021 @ 7:24 pm
Enjoy your spoon feeding of controlled information. I’m going to the whole buffet of a wealth of information and learning to feed myself. Critical thinking is integral in this time. Ask yourself why they’re trying to control information from brilliant minds ! If you answer “for our safety”..congratulations. You’ve been propagandized sufficiently.
AdamAmericana
August 10, 2021 @ 7:28 pm
Well, at least you’re well stocked in tinfoil.
The “whole buffet” – your verbiage for finding articles that cater to your confirmation bias.
Kellie
August 10, 2021 @ 7:34 pm
I heed info from both sides. That’s where critical thinking comes in. You heed info from one side and lambaste the other before giving it a fair shot. That’s what confirmation bias is. You haughtily dismiss and scorn for what sounds like no truly informed reason except blind faith in some elite centralized authority that controls info for some reason. What’s the reason again?
AdamAmericana
August 10, 2021 @ 7:38 pm
Until you conveniently find the information that melds with your political and world views. But hey, you do you.
Jake Cutter
August 10, 2021 @ 8:07 pm
In reading this, I’d have to say I agree with you Adam.
There’s a lot of confirmation bias going on here in this thread. Perhaps also some unwarranted self-righteousness, along with emotionally charged rush to judgement. Here’s the thing though….it doesn’t seem to be coming from Kellie.
King Honky Of Crackershire (No!)
August 10, 2021 @ 9:42 pm
Get another injection, Adam! Do it! Now!
Rusty
August 11, 2021 @ 4:09 am
https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210810/covid-vaccine-hesitancy-90-million
This is just one study among many that prove what she said was true. Go do some research instead of believing everything the mainstream media shove down your throat
AdamAmericana
August 11, 2021 @ 4:40 am
That article has nothing to do with the doctor she mentioned.
Rusty
August 11, 2021 @ 12:10 pm
I was actually referring to your many with PHDs comment. Which she was absolutely correct about.
Fran
August 16, 2021 @ 2:10 pm
BTW, Robert Malone took the vaccine!
Danny van Eijk
August 11, 2021 @ 5:20 am
“Do some research” the battling cry for those that have no idea what doing research entails.
Stellar
August 11, 2021 @ 10:09 am
There was a meme on Reddit for a second that I really wish had made it bigger. It was a photo of people working in a biology lab doing research, and then another photo of some idiot on the toilet with her phone doing ‘research “. At this point every time some idiot says do your research I picture the one taking a shit while reading misinformation.
Rusty
August 11, 2021 @ 12:08 pm
I’m sorry I didn’t realize reading scientific studies from scientific journals didn’t count as research. My bad
Doug Carter
August 11, 2021 @ 2:05 pm
Rusty, it doesn’t. It counts as reading research done by others. Nothing wrong with that, but it isn’t research done empirically.
wayne
August 10, 2021 @ 6:40 pm
Well, it is a mess. One simply does not know what to believe. But regardless of what one thinks about this, it should be a serious concern that there is an unpresented assault on liberty and free choice. Even if that freedom licenses wanton behavior.
Arlene
August 10, 2021 @ 6:58 pm
I have several thoughts about this article but I’ll start with one of immediate particular concern to parents who would like to bring their children to attend a summer folk or bluegrass or Americana festival. It is simply not true that “Everyone has access to free vaccines.” Children under 12 don’t, and I question whether it is in almost anybody’s interest inside or outside of the music industry to permit children to be in the very close proximity within a music venue of others who have not presented verification of vaccination, especially if masks are not required.
Trigger
August 10, 2021 @ 7:14 pm
Well, if the children are unvaccinated, then they would pose just as much of a threat to others as others would pose to them. So are we going to say you must prove vaccination to attend, but children under 12 are okay? Wouldn’t that kind of defeat the purpose of the bubble?
I think it would also be unfortunate if children weren’t allowed to attend festivals because they’re currently not allowed to be vaccinated. Especially at folk and bluegrass festivals, children’s programs are vital to the continuance of the music, and allow it to be more of a family affair.
I’m not saying that I’m against vaccine requirements, though I can already tell that’s the way this article will be read by many due to the very reactionary element to this topic. I just think we need to discuss the downstream dilemmas that such mandates will create, and the ramifications of those. Not allowing kids into festivals would be a big one.
Arlene
August 10, 2021 @ 7:46 pm
There are no easy choices or good options but to protect children not old enough to be vaccinated, I’m willing to suffer the consequences of barring access to children at those events where proof of vaccination is not required. I may be oversimplifying things, but until or unless vaccines are approved for children, I’ll continue to value the health of children more than the economic interests of the musicians and festival promoters who are likely to suffer from their absence.
Pagemantis
August 11, 2021 @ 3:45 am
The thing is, most of these concerts allow a negative test to get in. Children can be tested, and therefore they will be allowed in the same way as an unvaccinated adult with a negative test. I could see this acting as a detterent for children attending due to parents not wanting them to get tested, but not as a bar.
MusicIsMedicine
August 11, 2021 @ 8:41 pm
Has anyone looked at their state’s Dept of Health website. You can look at deaths by age group. You will be able to see who is most at risk. Children are low risk and studies from last year say they don’t get or spread it.
Jake Cutter
August 10, 2021 @ 7:03 pm
Love me some Krystal and Saagar, and not surprised that you follow them. All good points, and said in a fair and balanced way. You can see by some of the comments already and the likes that they received, that in fact the critical discussion will not be had.
“Secondly, if you are vaccinated, then you are no longer living in a scenario where my health is dependent on your health, or your health is dependent on anyone else’s. Everyone has access to free vaccines.” This is something I’ve been wondering about all along. You see many people somewhat agree with this, albeit with different motivation, and say something like “survival of the fittest” and “let Darwinism run its course.” The thing is, they don’t really mean that. Letting the “smart” people benefit from survival is not what they’re about, or they would just shut up already. They seem to have the psychological need to complain, look down on people, point their fingers and say things like “stupidity kills.”
Matt Dylan
August 10, 2021 @ 7:06 pm
just say no and keep ivermectin,vitamin d, and zinc at home, you’ll be fine its been 18 months yet here we are, which is more than you can say for the PCR tests they used to determine every single Covid case and which just had its EULA revoked by the FDA after they had to admit it could not distinguish between Covid and the common flu.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/30/cdc-study-shows-74percent-of-people-infected-in-massachusetts-covid-outbreak-were-fully-vaccinated.html
https://www.yahoo.com/news/vaccinated-people-75-recent-covid-071043169.html
thegentile
August 11, 2021 @ 6:32 am
“its been 18 months yet here we are”
less 618,000 dead americans.
Whiskey_Pete
August 11, 2021 @ 12:41 pm
Heart disease kills more *every year.*
And it’s mostly preventable.
Keep shoving burgers with fries, and zero exercise.
What Americans really need to worry about is cancer and heart disease.
thegentile
August 11, 2021 @ 1:10 pm
lol. if they create a cancer vaccine the same people wouldn’t take it. “this kind of cancer has a pretty high survival rate. i’ll take my chances rather than put that in my body!” also, cancer and heart disease aren’t transmissible.
Whiskey_Pete
August 11, 2021 @ 4:48 pm
Transmissible or not does not matter.
Number of deaths from a disease does.
We were originally concerned because of amount of predicted deaths.
Deaths are actually no way near the predicted amount of deaths.
Death rates continue to decline.
We have a vaccine and have been building immunity.
Now we are freaking out because of fluctuating cases.
Cancer and heart disease has been rising every year.
Their numbers are great, they lead in annual rates of death.
Deaths from cardiovascular disease alone dwarfs covid.
Cardiovascular disease is mostly preventable.
Nutrition, obesity, stress, and exercise all have a direct affect on all diseases. Yet zero discussing about that.
Your immune system has a direct correlation with your overall health.
78% of people hospitalized from covid were overweight or obese.
You think a cloth mask is a big factor on your survival rate?
That’s like putting up a chain link fence and throwing sand at it thinking you’re going to stop it from going through.
No, your immune system is what’s really going to stop covid.
There should at least be an equal emphasis on nutrition to fight covid.
Maybe we should screen for overweight and obese people prior to allowing them to enter venues?
I see so many overweight children and it drives me nuts.
Just look at their parents.
Fat people telling me about health is a joke.
My ass hikes, eat clean, exercise, wrestle (opposite of 6 ft distance).
I was sick (3) times last year and shrugged it off.
thegentile
August 11, 2021 @ 4:52 pm
i don’t disagree that those things aren’t important and we should obviously get them down, but, again, you can’t give someone cancer by breathing on them. this article is not about obese people.
Dylan's Foil
August 11, 2021 @ 9:34 am
Hi. Im not very good at researaching on the internet can you help me find some information about the long term effects of using ivermectin,vitamin d, and zinc and maybe some information on the proper dosage of those drugs and potential side effects?
Thnak you!
Dan
August 10, 2021 @ 7:24 pm
I’m perfectly ok with anti-vaxers taking stupid risks as long as they agree to pay for their medical treatment out of pocket vs jacking up the cost of insured medical care. A week in a covid ward will run you about $100k or more depending on treatment. Good luck to you bozos, bring your checkbook.
Trigger
August 10, 2021 @ 7:37 pm
That’s why I included the quote from Krystal Ball in this article. A lot of the people who have not been vaccinated already owe the medical establishment $100,000, or more. They had an appendicitis, maybe they were in an accident, ended up in the ER, and didn’t have insurance. Now their ruined financially for life. This is life in America. And now they’re being told to go and get a shot, and to trust that same medical establishment? There is a lot more than just “stupidity” at play.
thegentile
August 11, 2021 @ 6:35 am
i would bet that most of the people on this site who are against receiving this vaccine are also against any type of healthcare reform (because of socialism or something).
Gospelofjon
August 10, 2021 @ 7:44 pm
I love concerts and festivals as much as the next person but I am waiting until this craziness calms down. Be safe and make reasonable decisions, probably not the time to attend a packed concert at a small bar. If you go to Bike Week or Sturgis right now it’s hard to feel too bad for someone who gets sick or worse. I say that as someone who had a close friend and coworker die recently after going to his first Bike Week in Daytona just to prove he wasn’t afraid of COVID. He spent the last weeks of his life in a coma and before that begged everyone he knew to get vaccinated so they don’t end up like him.
Matt Dylan
August 10, 2021 @ 8:40 pm
whatever you do don’t watch this, https://youtu.be/_9KnhUu7Ba4
King Honky Of Crackershire (No!)
August 10, 2021 @ 11:41 pm
Or this.
https://youtu.be/Rntdq7aJ7uc
Danny van Eijk
August 11, 2021 @ 5:22 am
Thanks, I won’t.
Matt Dylan
August 11, 2021 @ 5:25 am
what a shock that YouTube removed Dr Dan Stocks video just as it hit 5 million views in 4 days,,
Has there EVER been a case in history where the people censoring speech, preventing open dialogue & debate, punishing & banning people whose political speech & opinions they disagree with have turned out to be the “good guys’?
Imagine cheering for Big Government, Big Tech and Big Pharma and thinking you’re the ‘resistance’ fortunately it can still be found here along with all the research data
https://hancockcountypatriots.blogspot.com/2021/08/dr-dan-stocks-presentation-to-mt-vernon.html
Jake Cutter
August 11, 2021 @ 7:01 am
Gee, didn’t see that coming at all. Just like they did the lab leak theory, and that one didn’t work out so well.
It’s almost as if calling any dissenting voice a conspiracy and throwing it in the memory hole, is the actual conspiracy.
thegentile
August 11, 2021 @ 6:38 am
as we all know, the best public health information and research comes from a PTA meeting. it’s so obvious sheeple!
Jake Cutter
August 11, 2021 @ 9:20 am
I thought about that while watching the video. It’s a bit awkward to me, actually. But rather than discredit the guy for it, perhaps the bigger question is why someone like him wouldn’t be allowed on MSNBC, etc. Everything he sites is from medical journals or other professionals. Could it be cherry picked? Of course. But if the “mainstream” won’t talk to him, and the only outlet for some people to speak is at a publicly funded institution, why should that fact alone discredit him? And what terms and conditions of YouTube did he violate by making an argument by citing scientific research? The same ones that they deleted lab leak “conspiracy theorists” for?
thegentile
August 11, 2021 @ 11:08 am
first, i’m not discrediting the guy. i’m discrediting people who share youtube videos of PTA meetings as some irrefutable proof. that said, maybe there’s a reason no one has reached out to have him on (fox news et al. included).
MusicIsMedicine
August 11, 2021 @ 8:48 pm
Heart disease and diabetes cost way more than that. That’s why health insurance costs are so high. I wish I didn’t have to pay for others bad decisions either around those diseases.. People need to stop with greasy sugary junk foods. Get healthy. Get exercise.
Di Harris
August 10, 2021 @ 7:25 pm
“You will change their minds by first understanding why they are hesitant, and speaking to their specific circumstances that have made the poor and minorities in the United States disproportionately distrusting of governmental and medical institutions, while attempting to punish or shame them often results them digging their heels into their position.”
Could you be even a little more condescending?
Danny van Eijk
August 11, 2021 @ 12:54 am
Absolutely nothing condescending about it.
Di Harris
August 11, 2021 @ 5:01 am
Untrue.
Digs
August 11, 2021 @ 6:12 am
What i find problematic is that youre still going in with an agenda to change someones mind. How about just truly having an open mind when you enter into these conversations.
AdamAmericana
August 10, 2021 @ 7:36 pm
Imagine writing an article like this decades ago about small pox or polio.
Yikes…
Jason O’Brien
August 10, 2021 @ 9:05 pm
Except COVID-19 has a 99.7% survival rate even without the vaccine. Not even remotely similar.
Danny van Eijk
August 11, 2021 @ 12:56 am
If a car ride had the same survival rate you wouldn’t get in any automobile. 99,7 are not the great odds you appear to believe they are.
Jorge Strait
August 11, 2021 @ 10:50 am
What are the odds of dying in an automobile accident? I’m curious.
Danny van Eijk
August 13, 2021 @ 6:55 am
If you are in a car crash then your survival chances are 98,6% (in the USA).
David
August 22, 2021 @ 11:05 am
You have about those same odds Everytime you wake up in the morning, maybe less depending on your occupation. So yea I get in a car every morning knowing I may not reach my destination. It’s called just living life the best way you can, knowing nothing is guaranteed and you may not see the next sun rise. Live in the moment.
Danny van Eijk
August 23, 2021 @ 12:50 am
Way to miss the point there, buddy!
MH
August 11, 2021 @ 6:44 am
Not to mention how advanced medicine has progressed since the days of small pox of polio.
Danny van Eijk
August 11, 2021 @ 7:16 am
Wait… what?
Bob
August 11, 2021 @ 10:25 pm
How is it not similar? Polio had a 99.5% survival rate without a vaccine. The inventor developed the vaccine in the 50’s over a couple of years and all of us were vaccinated against it. Thus eradicating it for the most part.
CountryKnight
August 11, 2021 @ 2:34 pm
Except smallpox and polio were much deadlier than COVID-19.
People act like COVID is the Black Death or Spanish Flu. It is not even close. Those diseases wiped out legions of healthy young people.
Danny van Eijk
August 13, 2021 @ 2:11 am
Which actually made them not as dangerous in the long run.
A virus is most succesful when it can infect a host and keep him around long enough to infect lots of other people.
Moses Mendoza
August 10, 2021 @ 7:41 pm
I mean, what’s the alternative? Shut down like last year? These musicians and venues are trying their best not to lose what little shirt remains off their back.
Trigger
August 10, 2021 @ 8:25 pm
These venues are in a terrible position. That is why I can’t implore enough that they should have the latitude (and they do legally) to require vaccination or negative tests if they wish. The alternative is to go forward with business as usual as they all were doing up until the last couple of days when 13 venues in Nashville chose to add this restriction, and some festivals also announced it. I expect more will do so in the coming days, while I also expect more festival cancellations. All I was hoping to do here was to add some greater context to the discussion.
Moses Mendoza
August 11, 2021 @ 3:43 am
Going on with business as usual would almost certainly lead them to be responsible for spreading this virus (and it’s attendant harms) to their patrons and community. They’re trying to find the best way forward in a world with no good choices, and you’ve smeared them as racist and authoritarian for it.
Trigger
August 11, 2021 @ 7:16 am
See, this is the problem. I’m not trying to “smear” anyone. A bunch of venues in Nashville decided to band together and demand proof of vaccine for entry. All I attempted to do was play some devil’s advocate, and enter some important points about why these policies present a slippery slope, and how they will disproportionately affect black, brown, and poor people, which is a statistical truth, backed by statistics from the CDC. As I said multiple times in the article, I respect and back any venue’s right to refuse service to people if they so choose. But since nobody is talking about the racial disparities in vaccinations, and instead are simply blaming stupid white Republicans, I felt the need to broaden the conversation. And that’s all this was—a conversation. But to many, everything is an attack, a smear. And so you must immediately smear it back, instead to engaging in the discussion that was put on the table.
Moses
August 11, 2021 @ 7:31 am
You’ve been extremely consistent in the past in labelling discussions of race and/or discrimination related to country music as smear tactics by biased journalists intent on destroying country music. It feels incredibly disingenuous to see you suddenly take up the mantle of racial discrimination when you think it cleverly suits your pre-existing ideological framework.
The idea that venues and musicians that have chosen to temporarily impose vaccine/testing requirements haven’t considered the possibility of disproportionate racial impact is insultingly presumptuous. It’s much more likely that they have considered all of this, recognize there are no ideal answers, and have chosen to make safety their top priority.
Also let’s be real about the relative impacts of these requirements on different concert goers. Given the audience demographics of the acts commonly written about here, political alignment is much more likely to be a predictor of vaccination status than race.
I can’t speak to these venues in Nashville, but most of the concerts/festivals I’ve seen imposing this requirement, testing was also an option. Of the one big festival I’ve been to (Newport), the tests were offered for free at the concert gates. Widespread Panic played three nights right outside of my office last week, and while I didn’t go, I could see they also had free rapid testing set up right outside the venue.
Trigger
August 11, 2021 @ 8:29 am
“You’ve been extremely consistent in the past in labelling discussions of race and/or discrimination related to country music as smear tactics by biased journalists intent on destroying country music.”
I also regularly call out racism or race-based issues when they are presented. Just because I point out when media members decidedly outside the country community and often uniquely-unqualified to cover country music present verifiably false information doesn’t mean I don’t think race can be an issue. But again, I don’t think anyone is being “racist” here. I was simply presenting talking points that NOBODY was talking about or addressing at all, not the venues, not the media. That is one of the reasons I included the quote from Krystal Ball. If venues want to put these restrictions in place, that’s their right. But I think we need to be open and honest about the downstream ramifications so that we make sure temporary restrictions don’t become permanent.
“Given the audience demographics of the acts commonly written about here, political alignment is much more likely to be a predictor of vaccination status than race.”
But when it comes to the 13 venues in Nashville that banded together to implement this policy, most of them are in traditionally black neighborhoods in east Nashville and other urban locations, even if they cater to a white “Americana” demographic, and the neighborhoods have become gentrified.
The negative test is a good and important alternative, but 1) those who don’t trust the medical establishment will still likely be persuaded away from it 2) with the massive amount of breakthrough cases (Blackberry Smoke just had another, and has cancelled their tour), vaccine proof does not mean you’re not infected whatsoever. None of this guarantees anything. You can print off a negative Covid test on the internet in seconds, and don’t even have to get the swab up the nose. I think these rules present a false sense of security.
sethington
August 10, 2021 @ 7:58 pm
We know from latest CDC guidance the vaccinated can spread the virus with similar viral loads (though with a shorter infectious window), hence the recommendation to mask indoors regardless of vaccination status. https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0730-mmwr-covid-19.html
It’s not an anti-vax statement to say that if these venue rules were actually about safety and preventing spread then they would be requiring all parties to submit a negative COVID test upon entry, regardless of vaccination status.
Trigger
August 10, 2021 @ 8:15 pm
“if these venue rules were actually about safety and preventing spread then they would be requiring all parties to submit a negative COVID test upon entry, regardless of vaccination status.”
Good point. When you have certain situations where as many as 70% of the people in a setting getting COVID are vaccinated, vaccination status really is not a good litmus test.
Jake Cutter
August 10, 2021 @ 8:31 pm
Not to mention a negative test is only around 70% accurate. So there’s also that…
Also, Trigger, I’m sorry to hear about your reaction. A friend of mine wasn’t so lucky. No point to make here….just honestly glad you seem to be ok.
Cool Lester Smooth
August 12, 2021 @ 5:13 am
70% of the folks in the Provincetown outbreak were vaccinated…but well over 90% of Provincetown adults are vaccinated (the official number is 116%, because there are actually more people who listed Provincetown as their residence for vaccination purposes than there were residents of PTown in the last census, haha!).
So, at most, 5% of the population accounted for 25-30% of the cases.
And, honestly…if people weren’t vaccinated, there would have been a hell of a lot more cases, given the shit that goes down in PTown during the summer, haha.
We’re talking Cheltenham numbers.
glendel
August 10, 2021 @ 8:35 pm
Common law mrs. g had an hour long cleanup operation a wk after she had a 7 hour transplant operation 5 years ago. So the 2 covid vaccine doses weren’t more eventful to her than getting her nails done.
Y’all need to suck it up and get vaccinated, so we can stop wearing masks anytime we leave our residence for any amount of time.
Jason O'Brien
August 10, 2021 @ 9:07 pm
No thanks, I’m not getting vaccinated, and it’s not my fault that we’re still locked down, that’d be the government’s fault. I’m not getting a vaccine just so I can go back to doing things that the government had no right to tell me not to do in the first place.
Doug Carter
August 11, 2021 @ 4:00 am
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
That was a top drawer bit. Well done. Thanks!
thegentile
August 11, 2021 @ 6:41 am
i’ve done absolutely nothing to improve the situation. how could it be my fault?!
– jason
Dylan's Foil
August 11, 2021 @ 9:46 am
$618,000 says Jason “thinks he got covid in January 2020” so he doesn’t have to do anything else now…
Countryfan68
August 10, 2021 @ 8:35 pm
All businesses have signs that say no shirt no shoes no service. So no mask and no vaccine no service. I can live with as well. These are private companies that look out for their workers. They can make any restrictions they want. People have to wear shirts and shoes. That is not taking away your freedom.neither is wearing a mask or getting vaccinated. I applaud all venues that think of the safety of their workers first.
Scott S.
August 10, 2021 @ 8:50 pm
I have no issues with venues requiring masks or social distancing. I do have a issue with a private entity requiring my private medical records to gain entry. I am not required by law to turn my medical records over, and I won’t be. Whether I am vaccinated or not is between me and my doctor. This is not a political position, it’s a right to privacy. Open the doors to this, then you open the doors to future violations of your freedoms.
Arlene
August 11, 2021 @ 5:19 am
No venue owners are invading your privacy by demanding to see your medical records and nobody has a right to enter a privately owned venue. You have a choice— if you want to visit some venues you have to provide proof of vaccination but nobody is compelling you to visit such a venue.
Trigger
August 11, 2021 @ 7:24 am
I think it’s at least disputable whether demanding to see your medical records is an invasion of privacy or not.
Yes, nobody has the right to enter a privately-owned venue. But restricting who can and can’t enter private businesses hearkens back to Jim Crow-era policies, especially after pouring over the CDC statistics on the disparity in vaccinations when it comes to race. Am I saying these venue owners are racist? Of course not. But I saw nobody even addressing this subject as venue owners in Nashville were being praised for adopting these policies, partly because vaccine hesitancy is only being broached publicly when it comes to whites. I think it is important we zoom out from this emotional moment and look at the broader picture, and the deeper ramifications of these policies as they’re implemented. That doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be. But people shouldn’t fool themselves into believing the only individuals being excluded by these policies are stupid white Republicans. Many are black people who don’t trust higher authority because of Jim Crow.
RD
August 11, 2021 @ 7:33 am
What would happen if I owned a private venue and demanded to know, from every woman who entered the building, whether or not she had had an abortion in her lifetime?
Doug Carter
August 11, 2021 @ 2:22 pm
You would quite likely go out of business. I can’t imagine you get enough demand from nutters only to make a profit. If you were trying to make an analogy, you failed miserably.
Andrew
August 10, 2021 @ 9:33 pm
Are you fucking kidding me dude?
Trigger
August 10, 2021 @ 10:05 pm
What?
Scott S.
August 11, 2021 @ 5:49 am
No, I’m not kidding. They are free to ask for whatever they want. I am free to say no, you cannot have my medical records. I will not attend any concert requiring me to do so. If the venues and artists can survive without me and others who feel the same, then good for them. If not?
Di Harris
August 10, 2021 @ 10:20 pm
The irony of this article is you are not helping to save country music.
You are helping its demise.
And, you certainly do not want to seriously discuss covid.
You have never been serious about discissing covid.
You merely use your forum to advance your ideas on covid.
Trigger
August 10, 2021 @ 10:45 pm
No, I don’t want to “seriously discuss Covid.” I only want to discuss Covid in the context of how it affects country music. If you think me screaming to the rafters “Covid is a myth! Wake up people!” would have any affect except to cut my own legs off, you’re giving me way too much credit. Also, I don’t believe that. I really don’t know what to believe. But I do believe that venues demanding “papers” from attendees presents some concerning dilemmas and potential downstream concerns that I think we should discuss. I don’t see any 100% right or wrong answers here, or any easy solutions. That’s why I think discussion is healthy.
Jake Cutter
August 10, 2021 @ 11:25 pm
In fairness Di,
Relatively speaking, Trigger does a good job with these subjects. Does he align 100% with you, with me, with anyone? Of course not. Overall he remains pretty balanced and open minded though, which is a rarity these days. I think we both know that, but if you need further proof, look no further than the fact that he gets attacked from both sides of almost any discussion of a political nature. Just the fact that he is asking questions and highlighting both sides of the argument is now taboo in our culture, and he’s been shit on by some relatively high profile people for it.
I know the nature of the mainstream and “acceptable” conversation and narratives is frustrating, but if anything, Trigger swims mostly upstream and is willing to stick his neck out and take a beating….in other words, IMO, he is not part of the problem.
Di Harris
August 11, 2021 @ 12:12 am
Jake,
I am not attacking Trigger.
Nor will i kiss his a**.
Have not ever asked anyone to 100% align with me, on any subject.
That would be the position of a “yes” man. And we both know those types of individuals add nothing valuable to any conversation.
Jake Cutter
August 11, 2021 @ 6:44 am
Sure, you know I agree with that. Saying his article “ironically” helps with the demise of country music is a bit of a stretch, especially by way of comparison to the usual drivel available everywhere else. The same goes for saying he “uses his forum to advance his ideas on covid.”
You can see by the comments of people like AdamAmericana that this article even asking questions triggers a reactionary response to mock and discredit what he is saying. He knew that would happen, and he wrote it anyway. Credit where it’s due.
Di Harris
August 11, 2021 @ 6:59 am
You know good & well, i credit Trig.
Stand by my, helping its demise remark.
Will be interesting to see if the public allows the cancellation of Outlaw Music Fest in N. Carolina.
In many places around the United States, people are not allowing being cancelled.
Many of us continuing to enjoy & support live music from some very talented musicians.
Kevin Smith
August 11, 2021 @ 8:24 am
Yep Jake. There are many who will shun any dissent or debate entirely, opting instead to ditch reason, logic, critical thinking skills, fact-finding, differing points of view, and the like, as “dangerous” and a threat to their world view. They typically appear as arrogant and intolerant, and quickly stoop to name- calling when confronted with facts that conflict with their pre-decided opinions. Censoring and stifling free discussion seldom leads to great outcomes. I really wish more people were curious and willing to step outside of their own self-made boxes a little bit, and consider seeking out truth and knowledge regardless where it leads. Sometimes it can lead you to an opinion you didnt wish to have, but there you are.
thegentile
August 11, 2021 @ 6:45 am
“The irony of this article is you are not helping to save country music.
You are helping its demise.” – di harris
“I am not attacking Trigger.” – di harris, also
Di Harris
August 11, 2021 @ 7:09 am
Correct, i am not attacking Trigger.
Trigger is smart enough to know that.
thegentile
August 11, 2021 @ 7:12 am
trigger’s the only one who writes these articles. who do you think you’re talking to when you say “you are not helping to save country music.” lol.
Di Harris
August 11, 2021 @ 7:31 am
Not engaging with you in this thread again, gentile
Di Harris
August 10, 2021 @ 11:01 pm
“But I do believe that venues demanding “papers” from attendees presents some concerning dilemmas …”
Oh, i could not agree more.
*See Tiananmen Square Massacre
King Honky Of Crackershire (No!)
August 10, 2021 @ 11:37 pm
Di,
I heard someone say something the other day that I really agreed with regarding how this all plays out. He said he figured there were only 3 ways out of this battle with Covidstan.
1. Somebody comes up with a vaccine that is efficacious and safe, which causes a large enough percentage of people to take it willingly that Covidstan backs down.
2. We practice mass civil disobedience on a scale that this nation hasn’t seen since the 60’s and Covidstan surrenders. (My preferred option, and the easiest)
3. Covidstan keeps pushing until a large minority somewhere decides not to take it anymore and pushes back, only not with rhetoric, if you catch my drift. Nationwide chaos ensues and some type of civil war plays out. I sure hope this doesn’t happen, but I fear the possibility of it gets more real every day. It just feels like something really bad is about to happen. And It doesn’t help when elitist scum who’ve destroyed people’s lives, party in violation of their own petty, tyrannical demands.
Di Harris
August 11, 2021 @ 7:06 am
Totally Honky
Danny van Eijk
August 11, 2021 @ 7:51 am
There is a 4th option!
4. You ignorant people listen to actual professionals in their fields and no longer believe the insane notion that the internet has made you an authority on everything and anything. You go back to being a passenger and let the pilot do his goddamn job.
Di Harris
August 11, 2021 @ 8:04 am
Hey Danny,
Am a scientist, a nuclear scientist.
With a very real background in Immunology.
I are one of the professionals.
Speaking of ignorant …
You really need to start educating yourself.
Don’t make the mistake of thinking i am calling you stupid.
Vast difference between being ignorant of a subject matter, and choosing to be stupid.
Also, google is not exactly a premium, peer reviewed, resource.
Just sayin’
Danny van Eijk
August 11, 2021 @ 8:52 am
You am one of the professionals?
Don’t make me laugh.
Di Harris
August 11, 2021 @ 9:04 am
Irritating as *uck, isn’t it?
: D
Danny van Eijk
August 11, 2021 @ 9:19 am
Absolutely. As well as not true.
Di Harris
August 11, 2021 @ 9:27 am
What is not true?
That i am a scientist, specializing in nuclear?
That i have a very real background in Immunology?
Like i said, irritating as *uck, isn’t it?
: D
If you weren’t so damned lazy, you could verify it
Doug Carter
August 11, 2021 @ 10:01 am
“I are one of the professionals”
Di Harris
August 11, 2021 @ 10:21 am
Not much for humor, Doug?
Might want to look up self-effacing.
It can be very useful, to lighten conversation.
Doug Carter
August 11, 2021 @ 10:29 am
The perfect explanation. “I meant to do it”. Also, I can take someone seriously that posts “*uck”. You can post “damn”, but not “fuck”? Illogical. “I respect that someone could be offended by ‘fuck’. Someone could be offended by “damn”. Or maybe it’s “I find ‘fuck’ to be offensive”. Then it’s absurd to post “*uck”. There is no acceptable explanation for such nonsense. What the fuck?
Doug Carter
August 11, 2021 @ 10:34 am
I CAN’T take someone seriously…
King Honky Of Crackershire (No!)
August 11, 2021 @ 8:14 am
If I decide to fly, rest assured that I’ll let the pilot do his job. But I don’t get on every plane that leaves the ground.
You thought you were being so cute, I’ll bet. Aww. By the way, you should definitely repent of taking the Lord’s name in vein.
P.S. Appeal to authority fallacies are for losers.
Danny van Eijk
August 11, 2021 @ 8:54 am
If only it had been an appeal to authority fallacy you would have been right. Unfortunately Di was the one making that one though.
Doug Carter
August 11, 2021 @ 10:04 am
Is “taking the Lord’s name in vein” a euphemism for intravenous drug use?
Danny van Eijk
August 11, 2021 @ 4:06 am
Don’t they ask for id anyway?
Danny van Eijk
August 11, 2021 @ 5:26 am
I am also wondering what venue asking for a proof of vaccination led to the massacre at Tiananmen Square.
It is always a great sign of delusion when people use actual tragedies to highlight their tiny inconvenience.
Blackh4t
August 10, 2021 @ 11:25 pm
Valid points.
Over in Australia we’re getting hit with Delta and people being complacent.
I got the shot, because why not? I do riskier things every day.
If it kills me, it kills me. If its helps people, thats great, i think the chances are good that it is helping, so its worth it.
There is no “right answer”, but I agree with trig that everything is more complex than it seems.
Maybe a VIP area for vaccinated only. I mean honestly, festivals are not hygienic in any case. I have picked up all kinds of things, not to mention the risks that single people take of the other infections. So covid might be the least worrying.
One point though. Private enterprise should be able to set entry requirements, but only if its not a monopoly situation. There always needs to be a consumer choice. SOME festivals need to be open to all.
RD
August 11, 2021 @ 6:22 am
“I got the shot, because why not? I do riskier things every day. If it kills me, it kills me. If its helps people, thats great, i think the chances are good that it is helping, so its worth it.”
This comment is a perfect example of the confluence of abject despair, hopelessness, and idiocy that plagues the West. You value your own life so little that you are willing to inject some untested, unproven gene therapy (its not a vaccine) into your body even it kills you and has no or nebulous benefit to other people.
thegentile
August 11, 2021 @ 7:52 am
actually, it’s probably because blackh4t has some empathy and values other people’s lives over just their own. if anything, it’s the rampant individualism of the west that has got us into this problem with people only caring about themselves. it’s the same idiocy that stops progress, because, “hey, everything is ok now for me so why should we try to improve things?”
Blackh4t
August 11, 2021 @ 10:16 am
I am neither hopeless or despairing, but possibly an idiot. I ride bulls for fun, do you think a vaccine scares me?
Actually its a ‘Western’ trait to be overly concerned with living as long as possible.
Also, its a vaccine. And some varients are even a tradition style vaccine.
But the discussion is meant to be over passports. I think what Trig is saying, that if we’re trying to get minorities vaccinated and back at concerts, then having a bunch of white people saying “keep away from us” is hardly the answer.
Daniele
August 10, 2021 @ 11:51 pm
Very interesting point of view, here in europe the situation is pretry different though. Restrictions are already going on and you need a green pass( vax proof) to do anything.At least in Italy, France and Germany that i know of.
Ben
August 11, 2021 @ 4:08 am
Just so everyone knows I haven’t had a tetanus shot in about 8 years and never had the chicken pox vaccine.
Trenton
August 11, 2021 @ 4:30 am
The biggest takeaway from this article that isn’t being talked about enough is the following quote.
“Secondly, if you are vaccinated, then you are no longer living in a scenario where my health is dependent on your health, or your health is dependent on anyone else’s. Everyone has access to free vaccines. Yes, breakthrough cases involving the Delta variant are concerning, but in 99.9% of those cases, they do not result in death, and rarely result in serious illness or hospitalization. If someone has chosen not to get vaccinated, they have assumed the risk of potentially falling ill due to COVID-19. “
This is basic logic that an 8 year old can understand. In light of these facts, the only reason you could possibly be for mandated vaccines is you want to be an tyrant and force other people into compliance. If your vaccinated, and the vaccine works, it shouldn’t matter to you if joe blow doesn’t want to get it. That’s his risk. There is a lot of bullies out there. It doesn’t surprise me at all that Jason Isbell was one of the first to require mandate. Par for the course. I’m sure his old trucker buddies will do the same. It’s just sad.
Tom
August 11, 2021 @ 10:12 am
I agree with your sentiment. I’m vaxxed, so I am mostly protected. If I’m around the virus or people who are unvaxxed, I don’t care since I’ll be okay.
If I were a venue owner though, and I looked at the number of unvaccinated folks dying from covid-19, I may make my venue require vaccines to do my part in keeping my community safe. You can be reckless on your own time, but at my venue, you have to be safe.
Rob Lee
August 11, 2021 @ 4:35 am
Sad that this will get way more traffic than the Moonpies review. That being said, good write up.
RCB
August 11, 2021 @ 4:36 am
I generally have a really high regard for your writing, Trigger, but this article reveals some really problematic ignorance about how vaccines work and why they are important in this context.
The most important miss, I think, is this: the fact that a vaccinated person can still be infected does not reduce the importance of the vaccine. The same logic would say that wearing a seatbelt is pointless because some people wearing seatbelts still die in car wrecks. Proportionality of risk matters. Reduced consequences of infection also matter.
Mandates don’t prevent unvaccinated people from sneaking or defrauding their way into venues? True! Laws against theft or murder don’t prevent all murders, but we still think the laws are a good idea. ID checks for cigarette or alcohol purchases don’t catch everyone, but we keep those. Etc. Etc.
Further, unvaccinated people congregating is a public health problem even for the vaccinated and unvaccinated alike. Such gatherings are a potential source of vaccine-evading variants.
Look, everybody wants things to get back to normal. The only way for that to happen is for as many people to get vaccinated as quickly as possible.
AdamAmericana
August 11, 2021 @ 4:42 am
We’re just a few weeks away from Trigger’s article equating vaccine documents to the Holocaust.
Danny van Eijk
August 11, 2021 @ 5:29 am
We already had Tiananmen Square in the comments so I would not be surprised if it comes up in here somewhere. I don’t think it will come from Trigger though.
King Honky Of Crackershire (No!)
August 11, 2021 @ 7:10 am
Hi Adam,
You compared Covid to Polio and Smallpox.
thegentile
August 11, 2021 @ 7:55 am
comparing a disease to a disease versus comparing getting a nose swab to tiananmen square. definitely a more apt comparison.
Danny van Eijk
August 11, 2021 @ 8:08 am
Seeing how all three are viruses that seems like a very reasonable comparison to make.
DJ
August 11, 2021 @ 4:59 am
Y’all, any of you, can have my jab! I ain’t doing it. It’s a BULLSHIT political power grab by nanny statist pretending they are super intelligent and we the plebes are merely scum to do their bidding. THAT is the inconvenient truth. IDC which side of the political spectrum you decorate- follow the money, see the agenda. You can call me any little, petty, name your heart desires- the facts won’t change….the facts. It’s BULLSHIT!
Ballgame
August 11, 2021 @ 5:07 am
I couldn’t agree more with your article.
ShadeGrown
August 11, 2021 @ 5:23 am
Between 1/20/20 and 8/4/21 there were less than 30 thousand Covid deaths in the U.S. for people under the age of 50 – you know, concert going ages… 35,000 Americans die in car accidents every year. We aren’t going to eradicate the virus. So let’s get on with life already. Get vaxxed if you feel you’re at risk. You’ll probably be needing it every year til the day you die, same as the flu shot. Leave the rest of us the fuck alone.
RCB
August 11, 2021 @ 5:38 am
Yeah, folks: only 30,000 people died. Well, people who count, anyway – not those olds.
I’m with you, man. My mom didn’t get me a bike for Christmas when I was 12, either.
RD
August 11, 2021 @ 6:10 am
If you remove all of the people who died of COVID when their car ran off the road and smashed into a bridge abutment, or died of a COVID shotgun blast under the chin, or died of COVID when they injected fentanyl into their veins, etc., the number is much lower.
Danny van Eijk
August 11, 2021 @ 6:39 am
Keep spouting that Infowars nonsense!
RD
August 11, 2021 @ 6:54 am
Haha. You can chose not to believe me, but my neighbor is the administrator of a large hospital. He told me very early on that nearly every person who died, regardless of cause or whether or not they were tested, was being marked down as a COVID death. There was a financial incentive to do so. His own mother, who was in her mid-90’s and had cancer and various other ailments, died in the middle of the pandemic, and he had to prevent them from listing her cause of death as COVID. She died in her sleep and there was never any indication that she had COVID. My wife’s uncle is 93. He has congestive heart failure and has been in an out of the hospital for years. He went into the hospital a few months ago, as a result of fluid build-up from the heart failure. When he go there, the doctor told him that he had COVID. He was never tested and had no other symptoms than shortness of breath. He’s had shortness of breath for years. He has fucking congestive heart failure. He wasn’t expected to make it, but he is a tough SOB and somehow made it back home. But now, his medical records show that he had COVID. So, when he inevitably dies in the not-too-distant future, I’m sure that they will list COVID as his cause of death.
Danny van Eijk
August 11, 2021 @ 7:26 am
There are 4 options:
A. You are a liar.
B. Your neighbor is a liar.
C. Your neighbor is a criminal who is smart enough to fuck over insurers, the cdc, his patients, the government, the general public, his staff, etc. but would tell his neighbor about it.
D. Your neighbor told you all these things are going on and you decide that the best outlet gor this information is a country music sote’s comment section.
I am leaning toward option a.
RD
August 11, 2021 @ 7:30 am
Statist troll
King Honky Of Crackershire (No!)
August 11, 2021 @ 7:40 am
RD,
I don’t know why you bother trying to explain anything to them. There is nothing you can say, nor any amount of evidence you could provide, that would convince them to think critically. They’re gone, man. It’s easier, and more fun, to mock and ridicule them. You wouldn’t try to explain something to Bozo; you’d laugh at Bozo.
Danny van Eijk
August 11, 2021 @ 7:47 am
Right…. I am a “statist troll” because I don’t buy your bullshit story.
A story, which by the way, doesn’t make any sense seeing how the curve is exactly the same for countries where this bs notion about financial insentives has not been bandied about.
RD
August 11, 2021 @ 7:53 am
Statist troll
Danny van Eijk
August 11, 2021 @ 8:05 am
Tired strategy.
RD
August 11, 2021 @ 8:13 am
I have never seen you offer a comment of any substance or even tangentially related to country music. You appeared from a troll/bot farm some weeks ago to mock and ridicule people who have been commenting on this site for years.
Danny van Eijk
August 11, 2021 @ 8:57 am
You could have an actual look at my comment history. But don’t let reality get in the way of your wish to shoot the messenger.
Aaron
August 11, 2021 @ 6:42 am
Off Broadway in STL requires proof of vaccination. I usually drove 4 hours to see a show there 3 or 4 times a year. I won’t be giving them any of my money going forward. I’ll drive farther to see someone if I need to.
MH
August 11, 2021 @ 6:43 am
“30 paragraphs and Jason Isbell wasn’t mentioned once. But if he wanted to be a more of a proactive participant as opposed to using his platform to dunk on people who think differently than him with the purpose of making his own star burn brighter and make bullies out of his fans, I would welcome it.”
BEAUTIFUL, Trig! For someone who talks about “meeting you up here on the road,” Isbell NEVER practices what he preaches.
Maybe to him, “the high road” means the “many levels above everyone else” he perceives himself to be perched upon.
Doug T
August 11, 2021 @ 7:19 am
Much in life is a gamble. Driving to the grocery store has an element of danger. Just play the odds. I’ve been vaccinated for 6 months and feel great. I wanted really badly to get the vax considering the odds of dying w/o it. My 1st cousin didn’t get his shot and now he’s dead. 2 young daughters w/o a dad.
Steve Earl, Eilen Jewell, Reckless Kelly, Hays Carll, Donna the Buffalo and others will hold shows in my area this autumn. Geez I want to see them, but I’m struggling with hitting the “order” button. This may be ugly but I would guess the vax rate of those audiences here in this area would not reach the national average.
RD
August 11, 2021 @ 7:44 am
But if the vaccine works and you have the vaccine, why are you concerned whether or not other people choose not to get it?
RCB
August 11, 2021 @ 8:02 am
1. The vaccines are not 100% effective. They vary roughly between 66% and 95% depending on exactly what metrics are being considered. The more unvaccinated people are around, the higher the chance of a breakthrough infection for a vaccinated person.
2. Increased community spread means an increase in the chance of a variant that will more successfully evade the vaccines.
3. A not-inconsiderable portion of the populace cannot receive the vaccine or, if receiving it, will face much lower vaccine efficacy than the norm. This is typically due to being immunocompromised for one of many reasons. The more unvaccinated people there are, the higher the community spread is, and the more likely it is that these people will be infected and have substantial negative outcomes.
Luckyoldsun
August 11, 2021 @ 3:22 pm
@RCB.
I agree with much of what you say, but at some point, just give it a rest. The vaccines work. CDC has reported, and it’s been widely reported throughout the media, that COVID is now only a deadly pandemic among the unvaccinated. Vaccinated people are not getting very sick or dyind from COVID.The vaccine may be 66% or 95% effective by this or that measure, but it’s been 99.999% effective in terms of preventing COVID deaths.
I got vaccinated and I’m not going to refrain from going out to eat or going to a concert out of fear for what some unvaccinated person might do to some hypothetical immunocompromised person.
Doug T
August 11, 2021 @ 12:05 pm
My wife’s mother is 99 yrs old. Although I’m vaccinated, if I pass on anything to my wife and she passes it on to her mom…. I’m just super careful. I don’t want that crap although my vax will most likely keep me from getting really sick.
King Honky Of Crackershire (No!)
August 11, 2021 @ 7:31 am
You can bet your sweet little bippy, that if Trump were still President, all these Pasty-Whites sticking this crap in their bodies would would refuse it on the grounds that it’s a “Trump vaccine”, and they’d call anyone who took the “vaccine” Kool-Aid drinkers.
thegentile
August 11, 2021 @ 7:59 am
why would anyone think that a vaccine developed by a turkish scientist living in germany was a ‘trump vaccine’? if trump were still president he would still be downplaying the virus like he did the whole time.
anyways, enjoy your little bippy.
King Honky Of Crackershire (No!)
August 11, 2021 @ 10:07 am
Why? Good question. I don’t know why you Pasty-Whites do what you do. If I did, I could solve the whole world’s problems.
Dogit
August 11, 2021 @ 7:46 am
It’s obviously a tough situation. Unfortunately, no one can be that confident in the vax vs no vax because the mountains of misinformation based on the two polical party’s agendas. Politics are way too integrated into this. I am not an anti vax person. I have survived COVID also. I still think it is up to each person make their own decision whether to get an experimental drug or not. Do your own research and decide. There is plenty of information about the pros and cons but political bias distort information. That is why I think we are in this tough situation. It is not up to me to call people names for choosing to get it or not. There is so much we are still learning about the VAX and Virus. They are new.
All I am saying is I can understand the hesitation and I understand people deciding to get the Vax. Everyone is so quick to attack someone for not thinking just like them. It’s disgusting.
JF
August 11, 2021 @ 7:47 am
Breathtaking bullshit.
Get vaccinated. If you do not get vaccinated, you are a terrible human being. This shit would be behind us if all the big babies just grew the fuck up. Mask up. Get the shot. Jesus this is not hard, but some of you are just so god damn dumb.
Bands and clubs realize that if we get another major shutdown — which it looks like will happen — the clubs and bands are gone forever. And when that happens, we will know who killed them.
King Honky Of Crackershire (No!)
August 11, 2021 @ 7:54 am
🍼🧻
I apologize for not having any Kleenex to give you.
RD
August 11, 2021 @ 8:14 am
Are we still flattening the curve? If only we had masked up, all of this could have been avoided.
Trigger
August 11, 2021 @ 8:15 am
What is “breathtaking bullshit” ?
I’m certainly not advising people not get vaccinated here.
Stringbuzz
August 11, 2021 @ 8:09 am
Getting the shot in no way guarantees you won’t get COVID-19, it only severely restricts serious illness. It also in no way prevents you from spreading it. A vaccinated person offers no protection to people around them.
Trigger
August 11, 2021 @ 8:36 am
Exactly. With the incredible amount of breakthrough infections were seeing across the board (while national health officials continue to say they’re “rare”) the idea these venues requiring vaccination are creating COVID bubbles is just untrue. In fact, giving people this false sense of security is likely resulting in more infections.
RCB
August 11, 2021 @ 9:15 am
This is wrong. If infected, vaccinated people can spread COVID, sure. Vaccinated people are less likely to become infected, even with Delta. Current numbers suggest breakthrough cases are less than 1% of cases. See: https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/covid-19-vaccine-breakthrough-cases-data-from-the-states/
Trigger
August 11, 2021 @ 9:32 am
That breakthrough number will dramatically, dramatically rise. And if it doesn’t they are lying to us. Reba and her partner just had breakthrough cases. Blackberry Smoke just canceled their tour due to a breakthrough case. The webmaster of this very website was fully vaccinated, just had a breakthrough case. They’ve contact traced events where over 70% of vaccinated people got COVID. Something’s going on here, and we’re likely too early to understand what.
Di Harris
August 11, 2021 @ 9:44 am
“And if it doesn’t they are lying to us.”
^
Di Harris
August 11, 2021 @ 12:13 pm
” … they are lying …”
Key qualifier(s) in this sentence.
Corncaster
August 12, 2021 @ 7:06 am
Trig, of course we should wait for the data, but two obvious hypotheses worth exploring are a) the mRNA therapy is missing its target (new mutation) and/or b) too short-lived in effect. That’s why the CDC will start baying like a hound about an endless stream of “boosters” — for a disease with an IFR slightly higher than the flu.
I feel for venue owners and promoters. They are being jerked around, like everyone else.
RD
August 11, 2021 @ 9:36 am
Nonsense. Have you read the Telegraph article from yesterday?
According to The Telegraph, “The delta variant has wrecked any chance of herd immunity,” a panel of experts including the head of the Oxford vaccine team said as they called for an end to mass testing so Britain can start to live with Covid.
“Scientists said it was time to accept that there was no way of stopping the virus spreading through the entire population, and monitoring people with mild symptoms was no longer helpful.”
“Prof. Andrew Pollard, who led the Oxford vaccine team, said it was clear that the delta variant can infect people who have been vaccinated, which made herd immunity impossible to reach even with high vaccine uptake.”
I know two medical researchers with whom I discussed the prospects of a vaccine last year. One works for a drug company and the other is a professor at a university in Colorado. Both laughed at the idea that a reliable vaccine could be made for a Coronavirus. It turns out they were correct. There are drug therapies which work for the small percentage of people who get seriously ill from the virus. Why get a vaccine which is untested, potentially dangerous, and doesn’t work anyway?
Danny van Eijk
August 11, 2021 @ 9:18 am
It does, in fact, lower the spread so if you combine that with the lesser symptoms then there is a great benefit to requiring vaccinations.
JRK
August 11, 2021 @ 8:18 am
“Is there any unbiased news source anymore?”
Yes, Trigger at SCM
seak
August 11, 2021 @ 9:46 am
Did you just, did you just compare vaccination requirements to race based discrimination? Seriously? a) vaccinations have been mandatory for a long time, this is not new.
b) Choosing to not get vaccinated is a CHOICE. Race is NOT a choice.
These two things are not comparable. FULL STOP. Once you have made that comparison, everything/anything else said is invalidated.
Also breakthrough infections still occur, and people who are vaccinated still interact with unvaccinated individuals, including those under 12, and those who are immunocompromised. Furthermore, unvaccinated individuals help to increase the chance for mutations in the virus. Vaccines are public health, and always have been, which is why (again) they’re mandatory.
You don’t want to get vaccinated? Fine. But there are consequences to that decision. If people who are working the tour get sick (vaccinated or no) they have to cancel concerts. It’s for everyone health, safety, and economic well being to require vaccinations.
Trigger
August 11, 2021 @ 10:18 am
“did you just compare vaccination requirements to race based discrimination?”
No, I didn’t. All I did was point out the statistical truth that these requirements will disproportionately exclude black, brown, and poor people from events they’re already often excluded from due to culture and socioeconomics, and this is an important point that should be entered into this discussion as venues attempt to implement them responsibly.
“Also breakthrough infections still occur, and people who are vaccinated still interact with unvaccinated individuals…”
Exactly. That is why these policies potentially create a false sense of security for concertgoers.
Again, I am not necessarily against these policies. But I wanted to have a deeper discussion that was not going on as restrictions on access to public events were being implemented.
seak
August 11, 2021 @ 10:42 am
“But the biggest concern with these vaccine requirements as they proliferate throughout the music industry is how they call back to an era when individuals in the United States were refused service or restricted from entering certain businesses due to discrimination.” Those are your words.
If you want to talk about current day systemic discrimination & how that impacts vaccination rates…go for it. But no vax mandatory vax policies, which have been in place for 70 years..do not harken back to Jim Crow era discrimination polices.
And most infection, and most infection spread is from unvaccinated people to other unvaccinated or vaccinated people. Everything carries some risk. Requiring vaccination lowers the risk.
The what about Black people defense though has become a popular Republican refrain. Black people are only slightly more vaccine hesitant then white people, and it’s actually often an access issue. Black people are also currently receiving more first shots then white people (by percentage). By far the largest group (by percentage) of unvaccinated individuals are Republicans, and among those who say they will never get vaccinated it’s 13% of Blacks, and 60% of Republicans. Meanwhile, white Republican governors in the south continue to reject mask mandates. So yes, this is a white Republican problem.
(most of) data source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/08/04/what-about-black-people-defense-republican-vaccine-hesitancy/
Bob
August 11, 2021 @ 9:52 am
At this point its not surprising to see the amount of people who dont give a fuck about what they do and the effects on other people. If you are excluded from a venue or business because you don’t want to play along with THEIR rules then don’t. Don’ t whine about it , don’t think somehow your civil rights are being violated and stop thinking you are more important than anybody else in this country.
Bear
August 11, 2021 @ 9:55 am
In my area we have a HUGE homeless problem. Most of the homeless here have jobs and just can’t afford the rent (that is another issue). But many homeless here are jobless and poor and bused in from out of state. And within that group getting a vaccine is not a priority let alone the fact that some don’t even know about the pandemic or masks. I imagine that is a small minority but the fact that there are any people who don’t know about it needs to be addressed.
From the people I talk too not be allowed into certain venues is coming a long distant second to fear of quarantine again and losing their job (maybe even one they just got after the first round). My ex lost her and job and just found one and could loose it again if we do a second quarantine.
Because of the first quarantine the Bay Area decided they didn’t need to pay for toll takers anymore and went automated, which has impacted minorities who can’t afford some monthly electronic pass but live day to day, same with PT cutting hours. Also those toll takers now have no job.
I know this is not the main meat of your article. But that is my biggest concern how deal with the growing unemployment caused by the quarantine. The way my local venues have HUSTLED to keep lights on and people employed is awe-inspiring but they can’t do it twice.
I myself am vaccinated both shots. I did it. But now and now I feel like as this goes on we just need to get back to “normal” and live with covid like we live with the flu and such illnesses. It’s here. It sucks.
Dogit
August 11, 2021 @ 1:52 pm
Yes, exactly. We just need to start discriminating people based on their health choice. Probably should add political affiliations too.
I mean the vax is emergency approved. I can’t believe all these dumb republicans don’t trust the information provided by trusted sources CNN and Facebook.
Bear
August 11, 2021 @ 5:25 pm
I’ve given up on news sources. Been burned WAY to much from all sides when it comes to “facts” and “reporting”. But that is just my own personal feelings.
Matt Dylan
August 13, 2021 @ 9:58 pm
common sense God forbid liberals had any
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/30/cdc-study-shows-74percent-of-people-infected-in-massachusetts-covid-outbreak-were-fully-vaccinated.html
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/cdc-covid-19-outbreak-among-170000960.html
https://news.yahoo.com/fully-vaccinated-people-quarter-covid-205000154.html
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/vaccinated-people-make-up-75-of-recent-covid-19-cases-in-singapore-but-few-fall-ill/ar-AAMtDFU
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/07/30/1022867219/cdc-study-provincetown-delta-vaccinated-breakthrough-mask-guidance
https://lasentinel.net/alarming-cdc-memo-reveals-vaccinated-individuals-spread-delta-variant-as-much-as-the-unvaccinated.html
https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/science/cdc-says-fully-vaccinated-people-spread-the-delta-variant-and-should-wear-masks-this-new-science-is-worrisome/ar-AAMCXEa
Bear
August 11, 2021 @ 9:57 am
Also I am starting to signs around here that say:
No Shirt
No Shoes
No Mask
No Service
I know that is not at all the same as requiring a vax card. But it has ruffled feathers as people fight over “”rights” vs. “obligations”.
Tom
August 11, 2021 @ 10:00 am
Trigger, I appreciate givens that you stated at the start. Those should already be assumed by the reader, but often they’re missed.
I disagree with a large portion of the article. The “slippery slope” argument relies on hypotheticals in the future, not the current reality. The vaccine has emergency use approval from FDA, that seems appropriate enough for venues to make decisions on. And as you eluded to, testing on site at venues can accommodate those who are not vaxxed.
Now that I got those gripes out, subject of minorities / low income groups still being vaccine hesitant is a worthy one to bring up. It does make me rethink some of the vaccine mandates. This does seem to be overlooked in common media, and it’s a good perspective to consider.
Personally, I am vaxxed. Being around those who are not vaxxed doesn’t pose much of a risk to me, only the unvaxxed are at a reasonably serious risk. So I don’t care for mandates or no mandates
But from a public health perspective, the more people who get vaxxed, the fewer deaths we will have, and maybe the sooner this goes away. So if vaccine mandates help get more shots in arms (which it may or may not), then I would be all for them. Anyways, good article.
Joshua Scott Hotchkin
August 11, 2021 @ 10:03 am
You do not have to be anti-vax to be skeptical of the Covid19 vaccines. The scientific process takes a very long time. Not just to be sure of efficacy, but to determine potential long term effects and interactions. All of those processes were ignored, and in a panic these pharmaceuticals were rushed to market. However the scientific process cannot just be abandoned to accommodate fear. The belief that medicines can be rushed through the scientific processes when it is an emergency is inherently anti-scientific. That is where we get into faith and magical thinking. Now if anyone wants to get shot up with some sloppy, half-assed science – that is your right. But to force those of us still insisting that these things are done properly, well that is just fanatical tyranny.
Bob
August 11, 2021 @ 10:24 am
Bullshit. Plain and simple. Nothing is half assed or had ]scientific principals abandoned. Ignorant people like you would have been in an iron lung if this was the polio epidemic.
Joshua Scott Hotchkin
August 11, 2021 @ 10:47 am
So then it is your belief that for over half a century the scientific and regulatory standards for new drugs was overkill? You think long term testing that tracks side effects that might not show up for years was just a waste of time, and that these massive pharmaceutical corporations should be allowed to release products as soon as they are devised in the future? Well okay then, old chap, please take as many minimally tested drugs as you possibly can. Let me know if I can help in any way.
Bob
August 11, 2021 @ 11:13 am
Do you think the doctors and scientists were sitting around in a bar in 2019 listening to Florida Gerorgia Line, drinking Bud lite when the said “fuck it” lets put some shit in a syringe and see what happens?
Or, did they look at the 100 plus years of research and realize that they could apply that science and knowledge to the current day virus’s. The mRNA vaccine has been developed over the last quarter century and will prove to be invaluable in the future because of the ability to quickly adapt to the need.
Corncaster
August 11, 2021 @ 5:38 pm
“Ignorant”? Here’s a good, large, recent study of vaccine hesitancy for you, super genius:
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.20.21260795v1.full.pdf
Charts are at the end. Who has the highest degree of hesitancy? The most highly-educated.
Bob
August 11, 2021 @ 8:11 pm
Interesting you equate somebody being “Highly educated” and the ability not to be ignorant. The study (which has not been peer reviewed) has some interesting data when taken at face value. Plenty of PHD’s are conspiracy loving people who watch fox news who voted for trump. Intelligent people in their field but lack real world common sense.
Here is a survey showing that College Educated people (of all races) were more likely to get vaccinated.
https://news.usc.edu/182848/education-covid-19-vaccine-safety-risks-usc-study/
Di Harris
August 11, 2021 @ 8:46 pm
Bob,
Not trying to speak for Corncaster.
However, do you really think highly educated means a degree, in whatever subject.
I assure you, there are highly educated people who have, little formal education.
Take for instance a man who has/ had, a sixth grade education.
Bet you a $. that some of those men could educate our asses into the ground.
There is also nothing wrong with a degreed education.
Know i am in the small minority, but do you think i allowed my employer to order business cards for me that said, Diana Harris, Chief of Nuclear Medicine.
No.
My reasoning was sound. I do not need a business card to stroke my ego.
More importantly, it would have built an instant wall between myself, and most of my patients.
Do not want that.
Want clear cut communication between patients and myself.
When a patient knows that you actually care – they will start talking & give you mountains of information about what they are experiencing health wise.
Which arms you with critical information as you do everything in your power, to help them with what they are experiencing.
Bob
August 11, 2021 @ 9:58 pm
Not sure why I can ‘t reply to Di Harris below.
I actually never made a correlation nor inferred that highly intelligent/educated people needed to be college educated. Just showed a survey that showed the opposite of what corncaster presented. Ignorance is a trait found at all levels of education.
Not sure what having your name on a business card relates to. But if a patient is sitting in front of you I am pretty sure you would introduce yourself to them and let them know how you wish to be addressed and your bedside manner would dictate the conversation. . If it were me I would love to have a business card with your name and title at the end of the appointment.
However, your philosophy of patient care is one I subscribed too as well.
Di Harris
August 11, 2021 @ 10:29 pm
A lot of people are intimidated by titles.
Of course, we all introduce ourselves to the patient & family/friends, who are with them. That is the first order of business, then immediately get 2 very important pieces of information – the patients entire name, plus birth date.
A lot of African (Ethiopian, Somalian, etc.) friends will have a birth date of 1/1/____, as they were never given documentation as to their actual birth date from their homeland(s).
You know what i find very interesting?
The amount of information you can receive from a very young child, say, a 5 year old as you are engaging them at their level, with a lot of smiles, toned down talk, and body language. And, if i can gently, with body language, or a gentle look given to the parent to encourage the parent to give the child a little space to express themselves – well sometimes that infotmation can be invaluable.
Blows my mind, everytime.
Of course, the parents/care givers are your biggest souce of information, in dealing with children.
Corncaster
August 12, 2021 @ 7:01 am
Bob, don’t be disingenuous. We can argue about what “educated” means all we like, but the study I linked to shows very clearly that vaccine hesitancy is not exclusive to “ignorant people.” If the view you expressed by this word “ignorant” weren’t so widespread, I wouldn’t harp on it.
But people have to know that much of what they think they “know” is wrong and being used in ways that make the cure much worse than the disease.
It has to stop.
Bob
August 12, 2021 @ 7:58 am
Definition of ignorant
1a : destitute of knowledge or education an ignorant society also : lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified parents ignorant of modern mathematics
b : resulting from or showing lack of knowledge or intelligence ignorant errors
2 : unaware, uninformed
After reading comments here I can say with out much doubt that the word “ignorant” is fitting.
With regards to the “cure” being worse than the disease. Prove that. Vaccines are not cures. If that’s how you think vaccines function then that understanding is fundamentally wrong (ignorant). I have never seen or read information saying Vaccines were going to cure Covid. To this day ,Polio is still in the world. But we are not making iron lungs by the thousands. Why? Because the vaccine has contained its spread in most parts of the world. Just like all the other vaccines that we get through out our lives.
As a side note, as you might imagine I am vaccinated. You know what happened after I was vaccinated? Nothing, I continued on with life as normal. I am in my early fifties and healthy. I really didn’t worry about getting sick. I worried about passing on Covid to others that were more susceptible and helping stop that process is important.
Tom
August 11, 2021 @ 11:12 am
Can you be specific when you state:
“All of those (scientific) processes were ignored”
I’m not disagreeing (or agreeing) with you. It’s just a pretty heavy claim, and warrants specifics or examples. What in its development or the clinical trials was ignored?
kross
August 11, 2021 @ 11:39 am
I’m pro FDA approved vaccinations. not touching this one with a 10 foot pole until then.
Tom
August 12, 2021 @ 8:58 am
FDA has granted emergency approval already. Full approval will likely come within weeks. Will you get it then?
Luckyoldsun
August 11, 2021 @ 11:40 am
Recent news reports based on CDC data and state reports say that in the U.S. now, COVID is entirely a pandemic of the UNvaccinated. Some vaccinated people still get it, but their cases are mild and they don’t die from it.
I got the Pfizer vaccine–both doses. I had zero side effects. If anybody asks me what they should do, I’ll tell them that I think they should get the vaccine. But I’m not going to browbeat anyone and I’ll go to a restaurant or a concert whether vaccines are required or not. That was kind of the whole point of my getting vaccinated.
Whiskey_Pete
August 11, 2021 @ 12:57 pm
The government will continue to move the goalpost.
Stay home and stay apart, no mask, get mask, get vaccinated, new virus, get vaccinated and wear a mask, you must be vaccinated, and eventually… go to jail if not vaccinated, you don’t wear silly cloth mask, and if you don’t stay arbitrarily 6 ft apart.
Nothing is more permanent than a temporary government program.
I’ve ignore the government “experts.” (Just like military experts for fighting wars)
Instead, I eat good, take supplements, and do plenty of exercise.
I do the opposite of social distancing and wrestle at large bjj/boxing/mma gym.
I feel great.
Americans should be more concern about cardiovascular disease which kills 660K ever year (mostly preventable) and cancer. That’s the real alarm.
Fat Freddy's Cat
August 11, 2021 @ 1:16 pm
I suppose some venues won’t feel much economic impact from excluding a segment of the population, depending on where they’re located. But all venues had better remember that nobody HAS to go to them. If a venue finds its revenues collapsing after imposing a bunch of mandates it won’t help to blame “anti-vaxxers” or Fox News or whatever Emmanuel Goldstein they pick.
OneBySea
August 11, 2021 @ 1:16 pm
My suspicion is that the number of people for whom it is difficult/impossible to get the vaccine or a test (Both are free and available all over the place), but who are able to attend concerts and festivals (expensive and only in certain places), is pretty darn small.
Venues already check ID, check bags, pat down, etc. Showing a vax card or a test result is really no worse than any of that. I am sympathetic to the “can’t be vaccinated for medical reasons” crowd, and wonder what is being done about that. But the rest is just silly.
Coat
August 11, 2021 @ 1:39 pm
There is no such thing as a safe drug.
All drugs have side effects.
I don’t take experimental drugs until I am terminally ill.
63Guild
August 11, 2021 @ 1:45 pm
Not sure which is worse the article or the comment section
This is why Idiocracy is now viewed as a documentary from the future
CountryKnight
August 11, 2021 @ 2:41 pm
The reason why the media attacks white Southerners is because they are one of the few remaining acceptable targets in America.
It is sickening but it is where America is at in 2021.
COVID has never been about the disease. It is about power and control. And the Left used it perfectly because people are cowardly.
Corncaster
August 11, 2021 @ 3:45 pm
The virus has an Infection Fatality Rate of 0.0003-0.5% in people younger than 70 years old.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html
The hysteria is a mental illness, like a media-induced general anxiety disorder. By all means, protect the vulnerable over 70 years old and let everyone else who is healthy (not obese, not asthmatic, not diabetic, not a heavy smoker) get it and develop natural immunity.
There is no need to participate in this ongoing phase 3 trial, and certainly no warrant for a mandatory experimental vaccine. The side effects are already numerous enough to have pulled past vaccines off the shelf, and the medium- and long-term effects of Pfizer and other jabs are still by definition unknown.
I’m not an anti-vaxxer. The Novavax looks promising. I’d wait for that, and even then, not till I’m older and more vulnerable.
You anxiety freaks are now a major public health problem. The effects of lockdowns have been devastating, and the fault for that lies squarely on you.
Jake Cutter
August 11, 2021 @ 6:19 pm
“Indeed, it is becoming ever more obvious that it is not famine, not earthquakes, not microbes, not cancer but man himself who is man’s greatest danger to man, for the simple reason that there is no adequate protection against psychic epidemics, which are infinitely more devastating than the worst of natural catastrophes.”
-Carl Jung
Di Harris
August 11, 2021 @ 6:26 pm
Follow the $Billions and the megalomania.
Have been telling it since 2019.
People too lazy, too comfortable with their gaming to care.
Tom
August 12, 2021 @ 8:56 am
I think you misreported that statistic. A range of 0.003% to 0.5% is 3 orders of magnitude apart.
Regardless, I do think you are underplaying the severity of the virus, especially when it is very widespread. The amount of deaths are staggering, and the ICU bed & ventilator capacities are not infinite. India is a good example of how bad Covid can be if there are not vaccinations and the virus roams free.
Covid differs from other causes of death in that it can be prevented, or at least contained. Think of traffic accidents. While many die, many many more would die if we did not have traffic laws, mandatory airbags and seatbelts. We should do all that is reasonable to minimize Covid deaths.
I would agree with you in that lockdowns are unreasonable. Especially now that people have the choice to protect, or not protect themselves, there is no need to ever force businesses to close.
Corncaster
August 15, 2021 @ 6:14 am
“A range of 0.003% to 0.5% is 3 orders of magnitude apart.”
The SARS-Cov-2 Infection Fatality Rate is age-stratified: 0.003% for 0–19 years, 0.02% for 20–49 years, 0.5% for 50–69 years, and 5.4% for 70+ years. At the same time, there are significant contributing co-morbidities.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html
I like live music and want it to continue. I get that an escaped virus from a Fauci-funded CCP virology research lab with crappy B-level security in Wuhan is a concern, but our public health policy reaction would be idiotic were it not, as I think, deliberately malicious.
Corncaster
August 11, 2021 @ 3:51 pm
By the way, live music has enough problems trying to exist. Requiring papers to listen to live music is just another way for big competitors to kill off small venue competition.
I know whose side I’m on.
ShadeGrown
August 11, 2021 @ 6:46 pm
Just learned that the Spokane venue where William Elliott Whitmore is playing at the end of the month requires Vax/test/mask. We had 8 tickets and tried to buy another 6 the other night but our internet cut out. Fortunately they’re refunding
Ryan
August 11, 2021 @ 9:35 pm
This is reads like a Junior High student just picked up some Ayn Rand and decided to mix-it with some speculative “science”. It’s bankrupt libertarianism couched as concern for social justice.
Those electing not to get a vaccine are being “discriminated” against in the same way that those who decide to drive the wrong way down a one-way street are discriminated against when they’re stopped and pulled-over. When you act with utter disregard to community and public safety there are some justifiable ramifications when you then attempt to be in community. That’s not discrimination, it’s a basic tenet of a civil society.
Tom
August 12, 2021 @ 9:34 am
Trigger,
One of the motivations you stated for publishing this article was the lack of media coverage / conversations regarding minority groups not being vaccinated.
Just today, the NY Times published an article titled “Why Only 27 Percent of Young Black New Yorkers Are Vaccinated”
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/12/nyregion/covid-vaccine-black-young-new-yorkers.html
Hopefully this continues to be talked about, for everyone’s benefit and understanding.
63Guild
August 12, 2021 @ 10:48 am
It’s been published a lot elsewhere, this was just wrote as a click bait article and a poor one at that
Tom
August 12, 2021 @ 11:29 am
The headline might be a little misleading, but the article itself was not clickbait. I thought it was reasonably well written and made a good argument, even if I disagreed with pieces of it.
Ian
August 12, 2021 @ 11:24 am
A lot of interesting points, but it seems to me that lumping vaccine hesitant minority groups and people who for medical reasons cannot be vaccinated in with the “I learned about the microchips from my YouTube doctor” crowd is muddying the already murky waters at best. I’m not sure how useful this is anyway. It makes a lot more sense for employers to just require vaccinations if they want. Of course with the already low unemployment rate out here there aren’t extra workers if you did do that. Fuck it. When are we going to get the new Flatlanders reviewed? Those guys are living legends and the album was independently released on Joe Elys label!
Kathoway
August 24, 2021 @ 1:07 pm
Minorities who have not been vaccinated are eligible to receive the vaccine, though. Also, if they are vaccine-hesitant; they are more likely to be in the “wait and see” category (meaning they’ll get the vaccine eventually), as stated in a Kaiser Family Foundation study. White Republicans are more likely to say that they’ll never get it. Trigger’s original argument isn’t that relevant. These aren’t discriminatory rules. At all.
frijoles negros
August 24, 2021 @ 7:23 pm
Thanks for reminding me why I stopped reading this bloggy blog blog. Predictably, you pull out a quote about black and brown people yet completely miss the systemic critique at its center (and no, your ostensibly systemic alley-oop preceding the quote don’t matter when it serves this tired libertarian argument you refuse to let go of; K & S seem a step in the right direction though, so maybe you’ll come around.)