And Now Country Music and Mass Shootings Will Be Forever Linked
There is something very distinctly American about the mass shooting, isn’t there? It’s like apple pie and Chevrolet pickup trucks, just not as wholesome, obviously. Though there are cultures and countries throughout the world that are decidedly more violent and more unsafe to inhabit, there is something interwoven into the very fabric of American society that compels certain individuals among us to take up arms, often against innocents, as a vehicle for self-righteous anger of such pureness, it even overrides concerns for self-preservation, let alone any legal recompense that might await the actions.
Of course statistically, these psychopathic individuals number in such an extreme minority, it is hardly fair to characterize the behavior as prevalent. But when blood spills so often and with such horrific results, it still feels like an issue of epidemic proportions, while the mass murderers themselves approach the enterprise almost like a skills competition, attempting to outdo the statistics of those who’ve come before them, fueled by the media and public who thrive off of rubbernecking at the sheer numbers.
The American democratic frame of government has resulted in the most prosperous, opportunity-filled society the world has ever seen, and it often exports that prosperity in inspiring ways throughout the world, despite the obvious blemishes and blunders throughout history, and certain segments of the forgotten in society. But there is a fundamental flaw in that design that allows a certain unrequited anger to bubble under the surface, born from envy, and an inane sense of equality that somehow an injustice must be righted, even if it means collateral damage inflicted upon disinterested third parties, or the taking of innocents—while a sense of glory awaits them in the afterlife.
And ironically, all of this is fueled by the polarization of ideologies that wish to save us from such acts, which has become increasingly prevalent as the 50/50 bisect of American society has made conflict and lack of consensus increasingly common. We all condemn such heinous acts like the Las Vegas attack, but love to lay the blame at everyone’s feet but our own. Oh, why do we need such guns in society some proclaim, while others use the incidents as evidence that society needs to be more armed. What’s the point of passing laws criminals won’t abide by anyway, especially ones on suicide missions? While obviously a course of inaction certainly won’t solve anything, and is responsible as anything for getting us to this point. Often it’s not about who is right, but via guilt, individuals wanting to tell themselves they’re not wrong by blaming an ideology counter to their own.
America instills envy and anger in individuals institutionally, and from a tender age. Just look at public schools with homecoming queens, popularity contests, and the implementation of an unspoken caste system via governmental institutions that sift individuals into certain sects, and then preordain their success, failure, popularity, and importance in society. This system creates eddys in culture where certain souls get lost, and with a sense of depravity and a feeling of hopelessness, the only way they can equalize their plight with society is by bringing everyone else down in the pit of suffering they exist in.
Shooter Stephen Paddock didn’t target the Route 91 Harvest Festival in Las Vegas despite it being a place where people gathered to enjoy music together and have a good time. He did it because of that. It was the perfect target to expend unresolved, and unextinguishable anger—an anger so incredible, death was preferred over any other resolution, or the only one available.
Country music will go through a trying time in the coming days and weeks as many will assert (and already have) that a country music festival either deserved such a fate, or at the least, is somehow complicit from its generally conservative listenership, and strong relationship to hunting and guns, especially Jason Aldean who was the performer on the stage when the rampage started, and is the beneficiary of high-profile hunting and outdoors endorsements.
But nothing will be done either way, despite the huffing and puffing of pundits. Society is too polarized and gridlocked even to get the streets repaved, let alone tackle the serious, difficult-to-solve issues plaguing society that individuals are unwilling to shoulder any portion of the blame for, and instead sift that blame towards the feet of their adversaries.
But there’s no running, and no hiding. At some point, the issue of mass murder will find you. You will know someone, or know someone who knows someone who has been touched by the grief and perplexity of why someone would decide to take the lives of other en masse, and for either no apparent reason, or a reason that makes no sense to us. Country music now knows this to be true, as so many of its biggest fans and top performers stood right in the crosshairs Sunday night.
Tragedy has always been part of the country music narrative. From the death of its first superstar at the age of 29, to plane crashes and other calamities. But now it was the venue for the largest mass shooting in modern American history. If it wasn’t so tragic, one might venture to call it fitting. Because there’s nothing more American than country music, except perhaps a mass shooting.
October 2, 2017 @ 6:47 pm
Comments will be heavily moderated. You’ve been warned.
October 2, 2017 @ 6:59 pm
I don’t think murderous ideologically-fueled rampages are uniquely American. (It’s also not yet clear this one was ideological.) We’ve seen such rampages across the world on every continent save Antartica.
October 3, 2017 @ 11:37 am
I don’t think they are, either. You do seem to have a greater number, proportionally, of non-ideologically driven mass shootings than in most western countries, as far as I’m aware. There is certainly an issue there, and it’s also a fact that your murder rate is significantly higher than in most other western countries.
That said, I’m not so sure that a ban on guns, or even just stricter gun laws is the answer. The homicide rate in the UK didn’t drop noticeably when the handgun ban was introduced after the Dunblane massacre in 1996, although suicide rates did, I think. I can also understand that Americans might not want to give up their guns if they use them for subsistence, or for purposes of home protection.
In the UK I’m reasonably confident that in the already unlikely event that my home is burgled, the perpetrator is highly unlikely to be carrying a firearm, so am quite confident that I don’t need one either. A knife I’m far less bothered about. Even if the gun laws were stricter in the US I doubt many criminals would hand theirs in to the authorities, so why should homeowners have to do the same? I can certainly see a rationale for banning assault rifles and other automatic weapons, but beyond that? I’m not so sure.
I genuinely don’t know why your murder rate is so much higher than ours – gang warfare accounts for a lot I’d assume, but we have gangs too and they don’t seem to kill as many people. Is it a cultural thing? I have no idea. As far as I can tell, the idea of guns as a right seems ingrained in your country – heck, it’s in your constitution – and that’s fine, admirable in some respects even. I do think there should be questions raised about why these shootings keep happening and how to better prevent them, though.
I don’t have any of the answers, but a country as great as yours (and I do have the utmost respect for many aspects of American culture) does run the risk of becoming indelibly associated with acts such as these. Speaking as a Brit who has travelled in Africa, Asia and Australia, unfortunately one of the first things many non-Americans think about when they think about America is mass shootings like this, which is incredibly unfair given all the good things your country should be known for.
October 3, 2017 @ 4:28 pm
Very well-thought-out comment. I don’t necessarily agree with everything you said, but I agree with the intent.
Quite a bit of the problem comes with the size of the US. With about five times the population of the UK, we’re naturally going to have more incidents even if rates were identical. The rest of the issue is related to mental health. It is now extremely difficult for the dangerously insane to receive treatment. A large number of them are now homeless, as they are unable to hold a job or function on any level. School shootings are also predominantly a mental health problem as well. It is very difficult to explain public schools to a non-American, but the mix of teenage hormones, high stress, mental illness, and the apathy and incompetence inherent in government institutions is a recipe for disaster. The school system has failed, the mental health system has failed, any effort at maintaining a common national culture has failed.
Civilian disarmament does not solve anything. Planned spree killings will not be affected if commerce in weapons is driven to the black or grey market, as we’ve seen in Europe and Mexico.
Anything else is cultural in origin. American culture is disintegrating and the results are very, very ugly.
October 2, 2017 @ 7:03 pm
Hey Trig, I always say: It doesn’t effect you,Until it does. You see if Sandy hook is just a passing
memory where 26 little children were gunned down,then this too will be the same.
I have no sympathy for the ones who will not help to end the violence in this country.
Those in power sit and do nothing. Communities turn on TV and judge other communities
for violence,NOW it’s just EVERY WHERE. It’s not a problem until it is….It doesn’t effect you
Until it does.
October 2, 2017 @ 7:15 pm
That being said, nobody’s taking our guns…because surrendering would be a decidedly unAmerican way.
October 3, 2017 @ 12:58 pm
Nobody has seriously suggested confiscation. Except the NRA when they want to scare people into giving them more money.
October 3, 2017 @ 5:21 pm
Really?
https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=No+one+wants+to+take+your+guns.&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
October 2, 2017 @ 7:16 pm
As I said on Twitter this morning, country is often in the culture business across most of the United States, and while I could point to increasing violence at country music festivals or even the increased polarization politically within the genre, there’s just the sickest sort of irony that years before this horrible tragedy, we got this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHLN5P6LMOs
I’m not saying that country asked for this to happen, or that any of the artists and songwriter who are at the festival or even the artist who made that song could have ever wanted this. Nobody deserves this, and as music critic Steven Hyden said, people target music festivals and concerts because they are a mass gathering of hope and community, something the sick freaks who target these things will never have.
But domestic terrorists like this are not born in a vacuum, and it’s a terrible thing that I’m no longer surprised. My thoughts and prayers are with those killed and wounded, but God gave us the power to make changes and set prayers in motion. That needs to be the next step.
October 2, 2017 @ 7:17 pm
The thing I hate most about these shootings, which happen way too often, is that both sides will politicize it. You’ll have your normal outrage on social media for the next week, then about a month from now nothing productive will come out of this to prevent future occurrences. Great article Trig
October 2, 2017 @ 7:17 pm
Kyle, I just want to say that this is perhaps the finest bit of writing I’ve seen from you and it saddens me that it has to be about such a tragic event.
October 3, 2017 @ 6:47 am
Agree. This opinion article was well-written.
THIS!! –> “…nothing will be done either way, despite the huffing and puffing of pundits. Society is too polarized and gridlocked even to get the streets repaved, let alone tackle the serious, difficult-to-solve issues plaguing society that individuals are unwilling to shoulder any portion of the blame for, and instead sift that blame towards the feet of their adversaries.”
October 2, 2017 @ 7:22 pm
Eh, I don’t think country music as a genre will be tied to this tragedy forever. Jason Aldean’s legacy though? Absolutely. I’m no fan of his music and from what I’ve read about him he seems like he can be a class-A prick, but I can’t help but feel awful for him after this. Imagine having to accept the reality that nearly 60 people were murdered at YOUR show, and there was basically nothing you could do to help out. I can’t even imagine how he must feel right now.
October 4, 2017 @ 10:31 am
It really wasn’t HIS personal show. It was a Festival with many bands he just happened to be headlining at that time on the that night. It couldv’e happened during any performer there on any of the 3 nights or as we’ve found out now a week earlier while Chance The Rapper or Lorde were playing. I’m not an Aldean fan either but to be forever linked to this nightmare is more than any artist should have to handle.
October 2, 2017 @ 7:29 pm
This might get moderated out, but I really just don’t care. Bullshit. Americans aren’t more prone to mass shootings bc of something in our society. Every country has had incidents like ours. Heck we’ve seen it recently with trucks in Europe. It’s just that when crap like this happens in other countries, they flipping change the laws to try to make it harder.
Australia used to be a county with high gun ownership, they had some mass shootings…they changed the dang laws. And you know what happened? The mass gun shootings went away.
We can debate the 2nd amendment till the cows come home, but in order to prevent potential terrorist attacks you can’t take a full size thing of toothpaste carry-on on a plane, so spare me the freedom BS. Over and over again, in countries around the world, it has been proven that gun control works. So if you want to keep your guns, fine, but understand that events like this and Sandy Hook are the consequences. We could do a lot more to prevent things like this, we choose not to.
October 2, 2017 @ 8:30 pm
That’s true re australia, though it’s also much harder to smuggle in weapons there. I have a feeling that it would not be very hard at all for heavy weaponry to be smuggled across the border for those who want it in the USA. Combined with the high poverty rates and violence of certain areas, I don’t think gun control would stop much. Also, even though you might not like It, the 2nd amendment is quite a real thing.
Ultimately – if he wants to kill somebody, he will. Australia had an incident in 2015 with smuggled in guns. It’s not like mass shootings were commonplace before gun control there. Be it knife, bomb, gun, Or truck.
October 3, 2017 @ 1:23 am
I think you mean “smuggled back across the border,” haha.
Strict gun control laws correlates heavily with a reduction of gun deaths per capita.
Just imagine the damage the Tsarnaev brothers could have done if they had access to something heavier than a 9mm.
If someone wants to kill somebody, they absolutely will…but we should make it as hard as possible, unless they want to join their state’s well-regulated militia…also known as the National Guard.
October 2, 2017 @ 8:58 pm
Well, I mean…good luck with that.
Do you have any idea of the gun laws in blue states that are staring down the barrel of massive levels of noncompliance?
Also, are you gonna sign up for the midnight confiscation raids? Or send your own son or daughter to do it? Because that’s what this “more gun control” business boils down to, whether you want to admit it or not.
October 3, 2017 @ 1:17 am
I mean, people like to say that…but MA and the other states with the most restrictive gun laws (including NY and CA) have a ton fewer firearm deaths per capita than those states with more permissive statutes.
The fact that gun control reduces firearm deaths per capita is not really up for debate, even as people desperately defend the right of men on terrorist watch lists to buy assault weapons.
October 3, 2017 @ 3:45 am
With all due respect, I really don’t care. I don’t think the right to keep and bear arms ought to be subject to arguments based on social utility any more than the rights to due process, free speech, or any other rights mentioned in the BoR.
October 3, 2017 @ 6:52 am
>With all due respect, I really don’t care
That mucho I believe.
October 3, 2017 @ 8:39 am
If someone wants to join a well-regulated militia (namely, the National Guard) organized by their Free State, their right to keep and bear arms should in no way be infringed.
If someone on a terrorist watchlist wants to buy a semiautomatic rifle to shoot up a club, it sure as fuck should be.
October 4, 2017 @ 4:56 am
well-regulated militia (namely, the National Guard)
Sorry, but this is every bit the load of crap that the rest of the anti-gun position is. To think that the Founding Fathers would write an amendment protecting the right of the government to arm itself after they had just fought one of those armed governments is almost literally insane.
October 4, 2017 @ 2:13 pm
Please examine the definition of militia as found in US federal law. It encompasses not only the National Guard, but also all able-bodied citizens between the ages of 17 and 64. If you meet this criteria, then YOU are legally part of the militia.
Well-regulated, in the language of the time it was written, referred to an object or organization functioning properly, not to government meddling.
October 3, 2017 @ 3:49 am
Also, “people like to say that “? The New York Times, the freaking American newspaper of record, came out and published an editorial for n their freaking FRONT PAGE calling for laws saying in regards to semiautomatic rifles, “Mr. and Mrs. America, turn them all in.” I mean, I don’t know about you, but I thought that was quite brazen.
October 3, 2017 @ 8:51 am
The “People like to say that” was in reference to the idea that blue state gun laws aren’t effective.
And of course, “Turn them all in” =/= “Let’s have midnight confiscation raids.”
October 3, 2017 @ 5:26 pm
Because, of course, after we pass a law banning possession of semiautomatic rifles, everyone’s just going to waltz down to the local constabulary and hand them right over, yes?
Look, whether people want to admit it or not, the police breaking down your door and killing you deader than shit is how the enforcement of every single law ends. And ultimately, every time someone says “there oughta be more laws,” they’re saying they’re perfectly OK with that.
October 3, 2017 @ 9:18 am
“…. states with the most restrictive gun laws (including NY and CA) have a ton fewer firearm deaths per capita than those states with more permissive statutes.”
And how many gun deaths have there been in Chicago this year?
October 3, 2017 @ 9:25 am
As I’ve mentioned elsewhere in this thread, there are half as many gun deaths per capita in Illinois as in Mississippi.
October 3, 2017 @ 5:29 pm
Chicago has the toughest gun laws in the country, and an out of control murder rate.
Nuf’ said.
October 3, 2017 @ 6:18 pm
The issue with that argument, of course, is that Chicago doesn’t have anywhere near the “murder rate” of places like New Orleans and St. Louis, where gun laws are far more lax.
Their gross total is higher, because they have far more people, but their murder per capita rate is only terrible, rather than “out of control.”
October 3, 2017 @ 4:07 am
Y’all are making my point for me. We have plenty of evidence that even in the United States gun control (not even banning guns, these two are not synonyms), reduces gun deaths. It will still never be zero, & yet people don’t want it. Constitutions can be changed.
That’s fine, but next time this happens, don’t offer your prayers. Walk up to the loved ones of those lost and say “I’m very sorry for your loss, but my ability to buy a gun is more important to me than potentially saving your loved ones life”. That’s the choice we’ve made as a country. At least be honest enough to admit it.
October 3, 2017 @ 6:03 am
Trig asked us not to get political, so I won’t. My tongue is firmly bit.
October 6, 2017 @ 4:55 am
It is not an ability but a right.
My rights don’t end because of a tragedy.
October 3, 2017 @ 1:02 am
http://www.theonion.com/article/no-way-prevent-says-only-nation-where-regularly-ha-57086
October 3, 2017 @ 7:50 am
Political comment.
October 3, 2017 @ 7:58 am
Political comments will be allowed to some extent on this thread as long as they are RESPECTFUL to everyone. Other political comments have already been deleted for name-calling and disrespect.
October 3, 2017 @ 8:12 am
Oh ok. So if I counter Seak’s strawman nonsense with reality, you won’t delete it?
October 3, 2017 @ 8:42 am
As long as you’re RESPECTFUL, stick to the issues, avoid name-calling, or callous comments in light of these events.
October 3, 2017 @ 8:41 am
…and, if you want to keep your automobiles, fine, but don’t come crying when somebody does in an MVA.
October 3, 2017 @ 9:00 am
USA is number 1 in world in gun ownership per capita, yet 111 in murders per capita.
The majority of the 110 countries ahead of us have lots of strict gun control.
In terms of the effectiveness of gun control, the USA’s 111th in the world ranking is actually made much higher than it should be, because of democratically controlled, strict gun law murder pits like Detroit, Chicago, New Orleans, St. Louis, and Baltimore.
If you take out all those gun-controlled murder pits, and apply the murder rate of Plano, TX to the whole country, where gun control is virtually non-existent, and gun ownership is extremely high compared to other parts of the country, America’s murder rate drops from 111 to 211.
October 4, 2017 @ 1:19 pm
Excellent comment. Thank you.
Firearm ownership per capita does not directly correlate with crime. In fact, it is inversely proportional on the whole.
When the CHL law was passed in 1995 in Texas, it did not increase violent crime.
By the same token, I’m certain that insituting stricter gun control will not result in fewer violent crimes and mass murders. It could however, depending on the degree of legislation, render more innocent people, law abiders, incapable of defending themselves or their homes against violent individuals who intend to do them harm.
That is one reason I am personally against blanket gun control measures.
The answer to most problems is very rarely an absolute reversal to the other side. Some degree of compromise seems rational and logical.
October 2, 2017 @ 7:36 pm
One of the immediate responses to these events is not to politicize it, but mass shootings happen on an almost daily basis in the United States. It’s already political. The political is personal. What happens in politics affects our everyday lives in both subtle and more visible ways. That could have been any of us at that concert. Which city will be next? How many more people will die before we address this issue?
We could take this moment and reflect on what’s happened and use our shared vulnerability as an impetus to create substantive change, not by taking away everyone’s guns, which the NRA tells its disciples to believe, but by expanding background checks, banning weapons of war, closing loopholes, and so on.
Many of the people who support the NRA also claim to care about police officers. Well, police officers died in Las Vegas. They are often confronting individuals who have more powerful fire power than they do. How does this unfettered access to guns help them do their job? It only makes it harder. It puts all of our lives at risk.
Caleb Keeter, who performed at the festival in Las Vegas with the Josh Abbott Band and witnessed the carnage, just wrote on his Twitter that he was against gun control for years but is now for it. It took being on the other side of those powerful guns to help him see that no one should have access to such weapons. I wish he’d realized this after other mass shootings, like Sandy Hook and Charleston, but I think it’s brave of him to speak out.
https://twitter.com/Calebkeeter/status/914872808110510080
It’s different when you’re in the cross hairs, and with the prevalence of these mass shootings, that could be any of us at any time.
October 2, 2017 @ 8:47 pm
From what I remember “mass shooting” is defined by the FBI as a shooting incident resulting in 5+ fatalities, so no, “mass shootings” do not happen “on an almost daily basis” here in the US. Gun control would not have stopped this massacre, because the shooter used a fully automatic weapon, which have been banned in this country for over three decades. Gun control policies failed us this time and will continue to do so.
October 2, 2017 @ 11:04 pm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shooting
No broadly accepted definition. Important distinction is that “shooting” someone does not always mean “killing” them. So if you want to say mass murder, you’d be correct. If you want to go mass shooting, you’d be incorrect. See below.
http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/
I understand this isn’t going to change your mind, but these shootings aren’t going to stop on their own. Better gun control policies (not gun bans) would likely reduce the number of occurrences, but they will never be completely eliminated as long as there are guns and bullets.
October 2, 2017 @ 11:27 pm
“They will never be completely eliminated as long as there are guns and bullets.”
Yes, you are completely correct, and that is why I feel like the gun control debate needs to stop there. I’m not saying we should stand by and accept that every year there will be a massacre in this country, but all I hear from the left is “we need ‘common sense’ gun control laws!” with little to no real, substantive policy ideas to back it up. We have background checks in this country. Multiple states have “assault weapons” bans. Fully automatic weapons are banned throughout the country. The only way you could possibly prevent all future gun massacres in the US is to outlaw firearms and ammunition entirely, and in this day and age, I’m sorry, but that will never happen, unless you want a full-scale civil war that will likely result in a bloodbath making our first civil war look like a Sunday school class.
October 3, 2017 @ 1:31 am
We have plenty of policy ideas to back it up.
New York has a quarter as many gun deaths per capita as Arkansas. Massachusetts has less than a fifth as many.
People still hunt in those states. They still have guns for self-defense.
But the Tsarnaev brothers had to borrow a 9mm from a drug dealing friend, rather than walking into a store and buying a Sig Sauer MCX with no questions asked.
October 3, 2017 @ 7:03 am
They actually do happen on almost a daily basis.
270 mass shootings (defined as 4 or more individuals being shot) in 2017.
http://www.abc15.com/news/data/mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-over-270-mass-shootings-have-occurred-in-2017
October 2, 2017 @ 7:41 pm
I read about everything you post here. Always enjoy it. I don’t comment hardly ever just because. I’ll make an effort and hope this interprets appropriately. I truly cannot name a Jason Aldean song. I know who he is. Like most here, I consider Waylon, Willie, Cash, Jones, Robbins, Hank, T Hall, Townes, Guy Clark, etc., & their contemporaries continuing the tradition to be country music. That being said, I’ve got a lot of friends (mostly younger) who love Jason Aldean, Luke Bryan, Eric Church, etc. I would never attend one of these concerts. But I know a lot of fine people who have attended these concerts before today and they will be there after this unspeakable tragedy. The people that attended this Las Vegas concert are truly amazing Americans. To say no one ever deserved this is ridiculous to even say. God bless these people that died while attending a concert. And God bless everyone at this concert that showed countless acts of bravery and heroism. This speaks volumes about anyone who identifies and represents their definition of country music. I don’t consider Jason Andean country music. That’s my opinion. No one to date has ever insinuated that my opinion matters. I come here to read respectful stories/opinions I appreciate and generally agree with. The people that attend Jason Aldean concerts make me proud that they consider themselves country music fans. Wish I could have done something to help them last night.
October 2, 2017 @ 7:50 pm
“The people that attended this Las Vegas concert are truly amazing Americans. To say no one ever deserved this is ridiculous to even say. God bless these people that died while attending a concert. And God bless everyone at this concert that showed countless acts of bravery and heroism.” – AMEN
October 2, 2017 @ 8:00 pm
Good comment Drivingtheview.
October 2, 2017 @ 8:20 pm
I have to say I don’t understand why there’s such a push for gun control already. Do we even know what guns he used? From my understanding, fully automatic weapons are already illegal.
October 2, 2017 @ 9:12 pm
Fully automatic rifles aren’t necessarily illegal (it may vary state to state), but they are very heavily regulated and expensive to get licenses for. However, with the aid of legal aftermarket parts like a bump stock or trigger crank, you can achieve a fully automatic rate of fire.
October 2, 2017 @ 11:05 pm
There has been a push for gun control for years. It never gets anywhere, another group of people are murdered, and there’s another push that doesn’t get anywhere. Rinse and repeat.
October 3, 2017 @ 1:32 am
http://www.theonion.com/article/americans-hopeful-will-be-last-mass-shooting-they–57093
October 3, 2017 @ 12:03 am
We can talk about certain restrictions on high powered weapons. I don’t mind having that conversation. What I do mind is all the people I’ve seen and heard clamoring for complete bans on private ownership of any type of gun, to include hunting rifles and shotguns, which are also used for home defense. THAT is unAmerican and our Constitution was written as a safeguard against that type of reactionary horseshit.
October 3, 2017 @ 5:05 am
I hope that the appropriate measures are taken in response to this continued assault on our constitutional right–the right to assemble in public without getting shot to hell.
I have very low expectations that it will actually happen, unfortunately. The democratic process is too skewed in favor of special interest groups. Perhaps if the Poster Board and Stick, and Portable Bullhorn lobbies had a little more leverage to counter-balance things, but I don’t see that happening.
I personally expect to have one or more rifles and/or shotguns with reasonable magazines in my possession with little to no government interference. If I choose to transport a firearm, such as a handgun, I accept more government regulation on that. If society at large finds, based on my public history, that my possession of firearms poses an enhanced risk to the public, then I accept that my right to legally purchase firearms may be revoked. I expect the existing search and seizure laws to remain in effect, so no ‘midnight confiscation raids’, please.
I think that under that type of law even the most extreme survivalist could still amass an armory sufficient to ward off all attacks by roving mobs of starving, city-dwellers searching for food in the wake of the coming apocalypse, so everyone can just keep their army surplus camo shirts on.
October 3, 2017 @ 5:21 am
First I don’t think this will or should be tagged to a country concert – it could have happened at a Jazz, Classical, Rock or Hip Hop or Celine Dion show. I think timing.
One thing to note about the attacks – while our sympathies are very naturally directed to the deceased and those they left behind – most gun shot wounds are extremely serious, recoveries are months and seldom full. I hope that most of the injuries are minor (eg brushes) but I suspect the odds, sadly, are that many have serious wounds and their lives will never be the same.
October 3, 2017 @ 6:51 am
There are no technical solutions to moral problems.
October 3, 2017 @ 7:11 am
The. Truth.
October 3, 2017 @ 7:04 am
Ask people in Chicago how well gun laws are working for them.
Chicago marks 500th homicide of the year: ‘It’s never over’
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-chicago-500th-homicide-tribune-data-20170917-story.html
Total number of murders in the United States in 2016, by state
https://www.statista.com/statistics/195331/number-of-murders-in-the-us-by-state/
I recall a few mos back someone plowed into a crowd in Las Vegas with a car. Do we need to talk about banning cars? Or more laws restricting YOUR freedom?
Yes we can debate it til the cows come home, but, the 2nd amendment is. Want it changed? Good luck. Get busy. Y’all who want the government to do something, don’t seem to understand the role of government in our lives. It’s job is to protect our freedom, period end of story.
The oath taken states to defend and protect The Constitution of the US.
I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.
There are no caveats in that oath…. or in the BOR. In fact the 2nd amendment explicitly states “shall not be infringed”.
Our freedoms don’t end with the BOR. They are simply recognized in a LAW of what gov’t can’t do, in an affirmation of the Declaration of Independence assertions. Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness is a “right, which means NOT granted by man, but inherent by birth.
The Founders were more intelligent than any congress or black robed idiot ever hope to be, and it took 13 mos for them to agree on the wording of The Supreme Law of the US. They got it right. What has occurred since is questionable at best. They also feared standing armies and I saw someone say the police are out gunned, but, the police are standing armies. They are “law enforcement officers”, by definition a “standing army” and they many times act as though civilians are the enemy. They wear kevlar and use armored personnel carriers and automatic weapons=standing army.
Someone mentioned “reasonable” capacity. Who defines “reasonable”? You? The gov’t? By what edict is that decided? We live in an alleged free country, that includes free to choose.
I also saw someone sarcastically call members of the NRA as disciples, I’d say that pretty well describes proponents of gov’t nanny statist worshippers who worship at the feet of said nanny statist.
Full disclosure: I don’t belong to the NRA. It has the largest data base of gun owners in the world, which means I don’t subscribe.
Yes, what happened was a senseless tragedy. But, there are some things that don’t make sense as well. Of course “We the people” will never be given the full story so we speculate and demand that gov’t so something-which equals anything so we can feel better about ourselves, none of which will make it better. There is nothing better than freedom!
I’ll close with this little ditty which is quite pertinent for those who demand gov’t do something, like more “freedom eroding restrictions”
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
October 3, 2017 @ 8:47 am
Illinois has the 11th fewest gun deaths per capita of any state in the Union. Half as many as Mississippi and Alabama.
Oh, and there are absolutely caveats to the second amendment. Leaving aside whether a bunch of people writing decades before the invention of the revolver meant for people to own military grade assault weapons, “The right to keep and bear arms” is clearly prefaced with the need for “a well-regulated militia.”
October 3, 2017 @ 9:31 am
I clearly wrote, Chicago. It’s not spelled Illinois. I also provided a link showing 500 murders in Chicago, not Illinois. I also posted a link giving STATE (Illinois is a state) statistics. Las Vegas is a city. Nevada is a state.
Address the idiot that rammed a car into a crowd a few mos ago. Should we ban cars? Or have more turn signal laws. Hate to infirm you, but dead is dead, and NO law will change that and NO law will stop it from happening.
There is NO caveat in the 2nd amendment. It’s suffix clearly states (“the right”) (which predate the constitution), “shall NOT be infringed”. The Constitution is an affirmation of the “right” of the people and the gov’t “shall not infringe”.
The matter of ‘type’ is irrelevant, It says “arms”. Cannons were available.
The founders were smarter than any congress critter or black robed idiot and knew precisely what they were writing. They actually studied History to “frame” The Constitution. Something many today, especially politicians, refuse to do.They argued about it for 13 mos and came to the conclusion we have as Supreme Law in the US.
Like I said; you wanna change it. Get busy.
October 3, 2017 @ 9:57 am
Are you trying to make my point for me?
“The idiot who rammed a car into a crowd” in Barcelona killed less than a quarter as many people as the idiot who decided to shoot up a crowd in Vegas.
And, of course, Chicago has the 18th most homicides per capita, and 16th most non-fatal shootings per capita, in the country.
New Orleans and St. Louis are the respective “leaders” in those numbers.
Then there’s the fact that Illinois has fewer gun deaths per capita than Nevada…
October 3, 2017 @ 11:26 am
Actually I was talking about the idiot in Las Vegas.
Las Vegas driver rams car into crowd, killing one bystander
https://www.yahoo.com/news/car-crashes-crowd-las-vegas-strip-reports-050249377.html
How quickly you forget.
Actually Chicago has had 500 murders this year and I provided a link….and it is just one city.
Total number of murders in the United States in 2016, by state
https://www.statista.com/statistics/195331/number-of-murders-in-the-us-by-state/
I already posted the above. Illinois ranks 3rd behind Ca and Tx.
……..
Since you seem to be fixated on numbers, do they really matter?
I stated simply; ask the people in Chicago……they’ve had 500 so far this year.
I read that last year they had over 900.
Gun control laws are alive and well in Chicago.
Guglielmi previously said Chicago Police are focused on holding violent offenders responsible by “building the strongest prosecution possible against” those accused of gun crimes, he said. They’re looking at where guns are coming from and how they’re transferred, and seeing if they can make additional arrests based on that information.
From Jan. 1 to Sept. 30, 2015, there were 2,477 people arrested on gun charges, Guglielmi said. Of those, more than 600 had been arrested before on weapons charges.
Here’s a breakdown:
• Two arrested had five prior arrests on weapons charges
• Six had four priors
• 28 had three priors
• 132 had two priors
• 460 had one prior
Source: Chicago Police
https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20151027/downtown/does-chicago-have-strictest-gun-laws-country-its-complicated
So, gun control laws really do a lot of good.
October 3, 2017 @ 12:34 pm
Ah, so you were comparing an incident where one person died to one where 58 people died and 500 more were injured?
Definitely weren’t making my point for me!
And, again, raw totals mean absolutely nothing.
As a point of reference, the population of Chicago is nine times greater than that of St. Louis (where concealed carry requires neither training nor a permit). So far this year, there have been 137 fatal shootings in STL, compared to 486 in Chicago.
So…yeah. If your entire argument rests on raw murder totals, unadjusted for population size, it’s a terrible argument, and you need to educate yourself.
October 3, 2017 @ 3:46 pm
If you’ve ever been to Illinois, you know that Illinois outside of Chicago is very rural and very conservative. Rural areas away from the border tend to have very low violent crime in general. In my county of 45,000 (population density of only 67/sq mi, so fairly rural), there has been a total of one publicized homicide over the last few years, and even that one may have had some justification – there is some talk of the deceased beating the woman who killed him.
Additionally, Illinois has shall-issue concealed carry, as well as no state-level restrictions on firearm types or magazine capacities, other than items already federally controlled under the NFA. Characterizing Illinois as having restrictive firearms laws is not entirely correct, but the Chicago area implements a vastly more restrictive set of local ordinances. This partly explains the disconnect between Chicago and downstate, as does the huge culture shift between the two areas.
October 3, 2017 @ 5:33 pm
Leaving aside whether a bunch of people writing decades before the invention of the revolver meant for people to own military grade assault weapons,
And how exactly are you making this comment? Did you write it on parchment with a quill pen? No?
Why don’t liberals ever fret about the Founding Fathers not envisioning the advent of computers and high-speed Internet? I mean, what’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
October 3, 2017 @ 5:55 pm
Wait…are you asking why people who believe that the Constitution needs to be a living and breathing document in order to be properly applied to modern life…”don’t ever fret” about the fact that the Constitution, as written, can’t be properly applied to modern life?
Why do you find that confusing?
October 3, 2017 @ 6:11 pm
Mostly because of the double standards.
You know, like saying people only have First Amendment rights if they’re acting as individuals instead of a collective (i.e. corporation) while saying at the same time that they only have Second Amendment rights if they’re acting as part of a collective (i.e., “militia” as defined by liberals).
October 3, 2017 @ 6:29 pm
The issue with that argument, of course, is that the Constitution explicitly contextualizes “The right to keep and bear arms” under the purview of “a well-regulated militia,” and makes literally no mention of corporations being able to donate directly to political parties (which the founders abhorred).
Thinking that the Constitution needs to be approached with an open mind when confronting modern problems isn’t a double standard. Selectively reading it, while furiously crying that you’re defending “original intent” whenever anyone questions you, absolutely is.
October 6, 2017 @ 5:00 am
Then I guess the First Amendment doesn’t apply to the internet. Since the Founding Fathers couldn’t foresee that being invented.
Or just maybe, it is the spirit of the Amendment and common sense.
October 3, 2017 @ 7:46 am
Trig, I wonder how much of your feeling that country music and mass murder will be “linked” is a function of your being so tied into the mediasphere. Out here in the non-mediasphere, I’m not feeling any such link at all. The murderer was a gambler with a family history of severe mental illness. The ties are elsewhere, really.
October 3, 2017 @ 8:17 am
I’m not buying it either.
October 3, 2017 @ 9:58 am
Unfortunately, folks are taking the title of this article too literally, and that’s probably my fault. I just couldn’t figure out a better one. However, I do think that when the history books of country music and America’s mass shooting epidemic are written, 10/1/2017 will have a HUGE impact on both.
October 3, 2017 @ 7:54 am
Schools, movie theaters, work places – it was only a matter of time until it hit country music. Hopefully it has some impact but after thoughts and prayers people will move on just like they did after Sandy Hook. People only really care if it affects them but as we’ve seen this weekend it’s creeping closer and closer to home. One of us or our family members is going to be the next victim. It’s coming.
One person who learned from this situation is Caleb Keeter from Josh Abbott band. A gun rights advocate who once he was actually in the situation learned that concealed carry is a joke. A pretty good read.
http://tasteofcountry.com/las-vegas-shooting-2nd-amendment-josh-abbott-band/?trackback=twitter_mobile_top
October 3, 2017 @ 3:50 pm
Sure, a concealed weapon isn’t much use against automatic gunfire from a concealed, elevated position half a klick away. That does not in any way make it a “joke” against the typical threat – a junkie or other thug intent on harming you or yours up close and personal.
October 4, 2017 @ 2:54 pm
In this situation, a concealed carry weapon wasn’t helpful. That doesn’t mean that concealed carry is a joke.
I was recently at the funeral of a friend’s dad. My friend, an ER physician, was in attendance. He couldn’t bring my friends father back to life. Does that mean doctors are a joke?
That’s how absurb your statement about concealed carry is.
October 3, 2017 @ 8:03 am
Looks like my post was too inflammatory and got moderated out. I guess truth is out of the question.
So, to be succinct: For those who are demanding gov’t do something;
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
October 3, 2017 @ 8:14 am
Yes because in all the countries where they have strict gun laws they are still putting Jews in camps. Great argument.
October 3, 2017 @ 8:45 am
Went over your head. No surprise.
October 3, 2017 @ 9:13 am
Nice try.
October 3, 2017 @ 9:33 am
Nice try for you? Not really. It went over your head. No surprise.
October 3, 2017 @ 9:45 am
You do realize that you and the gun lobbyists are the ones coming for the Jews and the Trade Union workers right? Your gun lust and opposition to common sense gun laws is what’s exterminating Jews, children and now country music fans.
October 3, 2017 @ 8:48 am
Clearly, it’s way better to be Jewish in Alabama or Mississippi than New York or Massachusetts!
October 3, 2017 @ 9:00 am
More clearly is the depth of some is sad.
You people want more gov’t restrictions on citizens in a country originally set up to help prevent it “coming” for you. Next time you (any of you) demand the gov’t do something (anything), just remember it when it comes for YOUR freedom, or one of your friends finds himself on the wrong side of the “law”(most of which are arbitrary and revenue generating sources of income) And it will, it is inevitable.
History bears it out.
October 3, 2017 @ 9:21 am
So you and your well armed militia with your bumper stocked Ar-15’s are going to fight the government? One mounted .50 caliber will reduce you and whatever you’re hiding in into rubble.
Common sense needs to bear out. You have guns for your own enjoyment not to protect Americans from some dream overthrow the government scenario.
October 3, 2017 @ 9:47 am
Seriously.
“Y’all are delusional. When the gubmint comes for us, I’LL be able to hold off a squad of trained soldiers with my gun collection and an assortment of kooky, Home Alone-style traps!”
October 3, 2017 @ 11:19 am
I also like the please muh freedoms! How are we free of we can’t even attend a country show without being murdered? Innocent people are losing their freedom and lives just so that gun nuts can run around playing G.I Joe.
October 3, 2017 @ 2:35 pm
Yea it’s ridiculous, what can strong beliefs, assault rifles, and improvised explosive devices do to the U.S. military? I mean look at Afghanistan, we showed those pesky Taliban. They’re not a military concern anymore..
Clearly you guys served. Leading experts in guerrilla warfare around the world.
October 4, 2017 @ 11:31 am
lol.
No one who knows anything about the history and geography of Afghanistan would ever compare their capacity to that of the Afghani Mujahideen, who have been successfully warring on superpowers for the last 40 years.
What’s next, kid? You gonna start going on about how One Cavalier is worth Ten Yankees?
October 5, 2017 @ 8:49 am
lol.
No one who knows anything about the history and geography of Afghanistan would ever compare their capacity to that of the Afghani Mujahideen, who have been successfully warring on superpowers for the last 40 years.
What’s next, kid? You gonna start going on about how One Cavalier is worth Ten Yankees?
I suppose your laugh-out-loud is a natural reaction since most people don’t really put any serious thoughts into the idea of insurrection. However, if you consider the American people’s long history of fear towards a strong central government you can begin to formulate certain scenarios that could play out. Just take into consideration that America 1.0 was the Articles of Confederation where we had a very weak central government and strong state governments. Ultimately, the failure of the Articles of Confederation led us to the creation of the U.S. Constitution or America 2.0 and a more balanced national government. Yet, that still didn’t stop certain southern states from rebelling. They didn’t like to be told what to do by the Federal government whether it was about slavery or taxes.
We know what the second amendment is about. It’s not a mystery. It’s about the natural (or ‘God given’) right to defend yourself from others and a tyrannical government if it were ever to turn against the people. “What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance, Let them take arms.”
– Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787
Straight from the horse’s mouth.
I imagine one possible scenario is if that if those on left of the political spectrum are successful in passing legislation that eliminates the grand majority of firearm ownership, we’d have a serious revolt. That is really the ultimate goal of political left whether they openly admit it or not. Finally, this idea of man’s (or woman’s) right to have access to a firearm without infringement for protection against others and the government is a uniquely American entitlement. It’s what makes America, America. The arguments about whether or not the founders would have wanted us to have AR-15s does not have an answer as clear as daylight like some of you may believe. In fact all of the weapons people had in the colonial times were military grade weapons. A musket was a military grade weapon.
Seriously.
“Y’all are delusional. When the gubmint comes for us, I’LL be able to hold off a squad of trained soldiers with my gun collection and an assortment of kooky, Home Alone-style traps!”
As close family friend who is a retired captain from a nearby rural city police department put it, “They’d have to take my guns over my cold dead body.” Sounds kind of cheesy but it reinforces my point that it is so ingrained in so many Americans the right to bear arms and that no government can take that away. This stupid stereotype you exclaimed that gun advocates who oppose government infringement are just hillbillies from rural Arkansas with some type of ridiculous southern vernacular is really doing a disservice to the men and women that have fought for this nation or who protect your streets. You go to any gun range and you will easily find vets and leos (law enforcement officers) who are overwhelming very much pro second amendment and wouldn’t go along with giving up their firearms.
I don’t understand why you think it’s crazy to think that American population wouldn’t be capable of successfully revolting against the government when we’ve seen people who have far less in terms of resources fend of the American military and other super powers throughout history. When groups of individuals ban together and are imbued with certain level of determination to fight who they believe are the oppressors, the possible outcome is unpredictable. It really is amazing how such a technologically disadvantage people in Afghanistan that live in such a harsh environment were able to militarize and put up such a fight against the superior Soviet and American military might. Keep in mind a lot these men were once simple farmers and quite possibly illiterate. To say with confidence that the American population is not capable of such similar feat is absurd and is underestimating the American people. Granted the motives that would spearhead such an effort would be different. We have a pretty healthy pool of experts in combat tactics from veterans and law enforcement to gun enthusiast in the American population.
So I don’t know, maybe I’m misunderstanding you. Sometimes it’s difficult to tell what a person’s intention is when they write something out as oppose to talking to your directly face-to-face. To me, I get the impression you think the second amendment is antiquated belief, a joke, and the idea of people fighting back is so remote. I’m not so sure about that. There is so much divisiveness in our nation right now. Hell, we already have large groups of people with opposing beliefs engaging in combat with each other using melee weapons.
October 5, 2017 @ 9:20 am
“As close family friend who is a retired captain from a nearby (rural) city police department put it,”
I meant (urban). Geez-louise.
October 3, 2017 @ 8:14 am
I won’t get into the whole gun debate, because at this point I think virtually everyone has picked a side and is fairly entrenched in their opinion. I believe we should have significantly stricter gun laws, that there is really no need in modern American society for regular citizens to own weapons of war, etc. I’m sure some of, if not most of you, disagree with me and probably think I am some pink-hat wearing hippie.
I also am not sure anything could have changed Las Vegas, Newtown, or Orlando. Their is an increasing sickness in humanity that shows no signs of slowing down. The lyrics of Corb Lund’s “Getting Down on the Mountain” stuck with me yesterday. In it he has a line “I think I see a tear in the social fabric”, and I can’t disagree anymore. Maybe better days are ahead for this Country, but I honestly doubt it. Too many people are violent and hate-filled. Our school systems are increasingly a joke, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, and through it all too many Americans are content to be numbed by reality television and live in their bubbles on the internet where they can find “legitimacy” in whatever insane opinion they spout off next. Don’t want to believe in facts and the truth? Well, here is a little guy named Alex Jones for you.
I’m not a religious person, but until we cure the rot that seems to have set in many parts of our society, all the laws or deregulation in the world won’t make a world of difference.
October 3, 2017 @ 8:36 am
Wow. This is so sad. My heart breaks for the families of all involved, especially for those of the victims. And Jason Aldean, oh my god…I can’t help but feel awful for him. My heart hurts for him, because I can’t even imagine what he’s going through right now. That’s got to be horrible, he’s probably replaying it over and over in his mind. And you know he’s gotta be terrified to get back on stage again. I just don’t understand why someone can hold so much hate in their hearts, I have no clue what would motivate someone to do such a cruel, senseless thing. Im praying for everyone involved.
October 3, 2017 @ 8:53 am
Mike W.
October 3, 2017 @ 8:14 am
I won’t get into the whole gun debate, because at this point I think virtually everyone has picked a side and is fairly entrenched in their opinion. I believe we should have significantly stricter gun laws, that there is really no need in modern American society for regular citizens to own weapons of war, etc. I’m sure some of, if not most of you, disagree with me and probably think I am some pink-hat wearing hippie.
…………
What you wear, or its color is irrelevant. What is relevant is your opinion on what others need.
Needs are: air, water, food, clothing and shelter.
Wants are the most basic of freedom. People have the right to choose. That does not entitle anyone else to decide what someone else’s choice should be based on their opinions.
The Constitution was written to restrict gov’t = those who deem themselves arbiters of need, not to restrict citizens or allow others to determine what a need for another is.
October 3, 2017 @ 9:35 am
I think I’ll do something a little radical and talk about country music…
I’m just hopeful that the powers-that-be in country music won’t see this as a reason to make the music even less country than it already is, out of some misguided desire to placate people (like that despicable CBS exec) who will never be placated.
October 3, 2017 @ 10:01 am
I don’t think that will be a result (hopefully), but with so many artists and fans so directly involved, you can guarantee there will be a musical reaction to all of this. Maren Morris already released an anti hate song.
October 3, 2017 @ 6:02 pm
wunnerful, because that’ll *sure* show guys like Paddock!
yes, that’s derisive mockery, so be it
the great songs yet to be written about this will honor the sheepdogs and reveal the searing truths of that night: self-sacrifice, fear, courage, bewilderment, and resolve
not cheap “no hate” preaching
country music at its best is bigger and more honest than that
.02
October 3, 2017 @ 9:46 am
CountryCharm
October 3, 2017 @ 9:21 am
So you and your well armed militia with your bumper stocked Ar-15’s are going to fight the government? One mounted .50 caliber will reduce you and whatever you’re hiding in into rubble.
Common sense needs to bear out. You have guns for your own enjoyment not to protect Americans from some dream overthrow the government scenario.
………….
I don’t own an AR15. Now what? You’re right, common sense does need to bear out. Common sense tells me, with History to back it, that demanding from gov’t to fix a perceived problem leads to problemS. Unforeseen consequences.
This country was founded to keep the fed gov’t off of people backs and The Constitution was written for that purpose leaving anything not addressed to the states. BUT, the 2nd amendment clearly addresses “arms” and the “right” of “the people”. Rights predate The Constitution, they are inherent. Not installed on an assy line or granted by a man, or woman.
As far as a 50 cal killing me, so what? You think it’s okay for a “standing Army” to kill citizens who disagree with it’s overbearing, over reaching, tyrannical self proclaimed omnipotence? I’d much rather die fighting for YOUR rights than bending to the tyranny we’re living if it becomes necessary.
That said, no one wants to comment on my assessment about speculation and knowing the full story. Y’all just want to attack the fact that I stand for the right of the individual. Another sad moment for freedom.
October 3, 2017 @ 11:27 am
A conspiracy theorist too.
October 4, 2017 @ 6:35 am
You can label me any way you want. It won’t change the facts. At this point it’s ALL speculation, and I doubt we’ll ever know the truth. It’s also a fact that The Homeland Security act has ‘given’ the fed gov’t powers never intended by the founders. It’s also a fact the 4th amendment is abused daily, if not hourly. It’s also a fact that asset forfeiture is alive and well. It’s also a fact the founders feared a standing army and we have it federally and locally….hence the 2nd amendment. It’s also a fact that cops kill civilians, albeit legally. It’s also a fact the fed gov’t does not abide by the constitution.
It’s also a fact the constitution is the law to keep the fed gov’t at bay.
It’s also a fact that History has shown no empire lasts.
So, call me what you will. It will be someone like me who stands for your rights as an individual when the chips are down. It won’t be the fed gov’t. Of course you won’t know it since it will never be an “official” story.
October 3, 2017 @ 12:08 pm
“Another sad moment for freedom.” Well yeah, ironically our country has had plenty of those.
October 4, 2017 @ 6:44 am
Not according to the “official” stories. We are a Nation whose citizens are free….. except when it isn’t expedient or handy for the fed gov’t to exert its authority to make us safe…..Manifest Destiny, Sand Creek Massacre, Thibodaux massacre, Homeland Security act, FBI, TSA, NDAA, CIA, IRS, asset forfeiture,war on drugs, war on poverty, war on terror, civil war, etc.
October 3, 2017 @ 6:04 pm
yes, we’re outgunned
that’s not the point
the point is who is to be master
October 4, 2017 @ 6:50 am
Sadly, most citizens believe the gov’t is the master.
I’ve wondered about that for years. Why are those elected called serving? Why do they beg for your vote and dollars to get them elected to serve?
Best I recall, from what little formal education I have, is that a representative re presents the wants needs or desires of others = “others” are the master.
But our (approved/forced/federally approved) vaunted education system forgets to pass that on.
October 3, 2017 @ 10:55 pm
You have a great point DJ. I hear anti-gun nuts say all the time: “if the government was gonna come for you, you wouldn’t stand a chance with your little pea shooters compared to their military-grade arsenal.” So? I’d rather go down swinging than bow down to tyranny. I believe it was Thomas Jefferson who at one time used a seal that stated “Disobedience to tyrants is obedience to God,” or something along those lines. Words to live by, indeed.
October 4, 2017 @ 6:16 am
And in the same breath they don’t want citizens equipped with the arms the military has so they can do a bit better job. Only cops and military are allowed to murder in mass numbers. Apparently it’s okay when done in the name of some stupid bumper sticker slogan-to protect and serve-the war on terror, the war on drugs, etc. just so the gov’t approves it.
October 4, 2017 @ 12:07 pm
I believe that quote is attributed to Benjamin Franklin. I can’t imagine Thomas Jefferson ever taking sole ownership for a phrase that ends with “obedience to God”, considering his religious views and emphasis on separation between church and state.
October 4, 2017 @ 12:15 pm
I wasn’t fully correct, I will admit. Benjamin Franklin came up with that motto, but Thomas Jefferson also adopted it for his own seal later on. Jefferson was no evangelical Christian but he absolutely believed in God and had great appreciation for the teachings of Christ. He was certainly not an atheist.
October 4, 2017 @ 1:21 pm
I’m not sure we have enough info to say for sure that Jefferson “absolutely believed in God(Yahweh)” or that “he was certainly not an atheist”. He admired the teachings of Jesus but didn’t believe in his divinity, the trinity, or dogma. He basically considered a whole bunch of the New Testament garbage. I’ve read many times that Jefferson was closer to a Deist than anything else, and always showed skepticism toward the Abrahamic religions. It’s still unclear what his true feelings on religion were and that God to him was often more “natural law” as opposed to a sole divine being.
I misunderstood what you were originally saying about the seal, that being said we don’t exactly know what “God” meant to Jefferson when he used that motto personally.
October 4, 2017 @ 1:27 pm
Yeah, Jefferson believed in the Unmoved Mover and universal salvation.
October 3, 2017 @ 9:54 am
Yesterday I read about the awful events in Las Vegas both on this website and
on BBC and Cnn. I wanted to write something. But I could not, words felt meaningless and I just felt numb .So I did what I always do on such occasions. listen to music…
Today I read your article Trigger it was very thoughtful and I wish I could express myself as well as you do. But at least I’m gonna do what couldn’t make myself to do yesterday: offer my condolences.
October 3, 2017 @ 10:00 am
Thank you, Trigger. They will be forever linked now. My church was the target of a mass shooting nine years ago. My mother, the church secretary at the time, was already there (the shooting occurred during a children’s play prior to the service). Even though the shooting was nine years ago, whenever I answer the age-old Southern question, “Where do you attend church?” I get an uncomfortable look and the response, “Isn’t that.. the place… you know?” No matter how many good acts the church does, how many souls we save, we will always be the place where a deranged man opened fire on congregation of mainly elderly people and families. I am sad that anyone has to bear this stigma.
October 3, 2017 @ 6:11 pm
stigmata
your church is an icon, now
buck up
October 3, 2017 @ 10:16 am
Cool Lester Smooth
October 3, 2017 @ 9:47 am
Seriously.
“Y’all are delusional. When the gubmint comes for us, I’LL be able to hold off a squad of trained soldiers with my gun collection and an assortment of kooky, Home Alone-style traps!”
………….
You gotta stand for somethin’ or you’ll fall for anything. I’ll stand for the “rights” of the individual while the collective bows to tyranny of the many so the “feelings” of the few will be “placated” with more rhetoric convincing the shallow minded that all we need are more laws restricting more citizens.
And I’ve yet to see from anyone exactly how more laws would have prevented this from happening.
Hell, we have “Homeland Security”, the NSA, The FBI, ICE, NDAA, back ground checks, registration, SS cards, drivers licenses, complete disrespect for the 4th and 10th amendment and allegedly the best “intelligence” community in the History of the world….. yet, here we are, post 9/11, still clamoring for more restrictions on citizens from a gov’t implemented to be the exact opposite, claiming to make us safer…LOL.
October 3, 2017 @ 10:57 am
LOL? This topic is humorous to you? Wow.
There most certainly DOES need to be “more laws restricting more citizens.” I’ll get specific, any time a person with severe mental illness can walk into a gun store and purchase a weapon capable of killing many in a short amount of time, I have a HUGE problem with that. There needs to be mental evaluations for first time gun purchasers, paid for by the would be purchaser. Will it solve the problem? No, but it’s a good start. It will most certainly help.
October 3, 2017 @ 3:53 pm
This guy had no evident mental problems. Additionally, psychological tests are by definition an infringement and are therefore unconstitutional. It would not “most certainly help”.
October 4, 2017 @ 3:01 am
I was not referring to “this guy” in particular, just in general as a starting place. If not giving efficiently deadly weapons to people that are mentally deranged is an “infringement” or “unconstitutional,” then we need to change the definition, change the law, change something. Watching it get worse and worse as time goes by is putting innocent blood on all of our hands. To classify the loss of innocent lives as collateral damage so you can feel secure at night polishing your military assault rifle that you likely have no military training for makes you the worst part of the problem, next to the shooters themselves
October 4, 2017 @ 2:25 pm
Mental illness is rarely treated as seriously as it needs to be. It is incredibly difficult to have an individual treated, even when to do otherwise would pose a clear and present danger to others. The last no-holds-barred lethal-force confrontation we dealt with was caused by an unstable individual attempting to commit a forcible felony. Those adjudicated mentally incompetent are already legally barred from owning firearms; I’d actually suggest reading through an ATF Form 4473 to see what makes one a ‘prohibited person’. On the whole, I believe that any person not incarcerated or institutionalized must be granted full use of their Constitutional rights without taxation or infringement. However, there are a whole lot of people not incarcerated or institutionalized who should be.
To be perfectly honest, I have many, many hours of military training on so-called ‘military assault rifles’, including their safe operation AND employment as part of a team, to terminate monsters like this one who would slaughter innocents.
October 4, 2017 @ 6:11 am
In a way, yes it is humorous. The lack of knowledge is amazing, funny, in a sad sort of way.
How people in this country, founded expressly for the purpose of protecting the rights of the individual, from ANY gov’t interference in their personal lives have been so sadly misinformed speaks volumes to our education “system”. A system, BTW, approved of and demanded by the fed gov’t for which it does not have the constitutional authority.
The apathy of citizens toward the tyrannical infringement of the fed gov’t is beyond belief.
It shows ignorance of the constitution, and History. Recent History BTW.
It seems some (maybe many) prefer to give the gov’t more opportunity to restrict citizens even more, as long as it does something, anything, as long as it does something to make them “feel” better, facts and truth be damned.
It’s funny, in a sad sort of way. I’m just glad I’m as old as I am so I won’t have to see where this ship is headed. It ain’t gonna be pretty. History proves it.
October 4, 2017 @ 12:22 pm
I agree with some of what you’re saying but let’s not act like the constitution hasn’t been amended before or just flatly ignored(separation of church and state). It’d be nice if we obeyed the constitution but both parties have shown that they basically use the constitution as some sort of secondary reference sheet as opposed to the foundation and frame work it was/is meant to be.
October 4, 2017 @ 1:29 pm
Yup.
Hell, The 3/5 Clause is a more integral part of the Constitution than any part of the Bill of Rights, all of which were added later.
October 4, 2017 @ 2:30 pm
That’s true, and you’ll not see me defending a Republican or a Democrat, or any party for that matter.
I’m libertarian (little l on purpose) and an advocate for individual rights.
It is said; the constitution was being abused before the ink was dry….that doesn’t mean 2 wrongs make a right.
IF adhered to most of our problems would go away.
What happened in Vegas is a tragedy, but, rules will be broken, no matter how stringent. There are people who live just for that purpose, usually lawyers, who pay others to teach them how to lie legally and parse words to make the simple complex and an esoteric venture, when nothing could be further from the truth. The intellectual makes the complex simple. The esoteric psuedo intellectual makes the simple complex. The Constitution was penned in simple English for a reason, and esoteric wasn’t it, nor complex.
Funny thing about truth. It is constant. Knowledge evolves. The truth is; we have certain inalienable rights, endowed….. they weren’t “granted” by a seeming benevolent benefactor or installed on an assembly line. They are inherent.
The constitution is a document, signed by the states as a legal contract and sworn by representatives to be upheld (which is respect) and defended (which is to stand for) protecting those rights from a gov’t (fed in this case) and the 2nd clearly states; shall not be infringed.
There seems to be those that believe the fed gov’t has the authority (morally and legally) to divest citizens of their rights simple because they want it to.
To the above about the BOR…. the timeline is irrelevant. The fact is, they are there. Like I said before; want to change it. Get busy.
But, beware what you ask for. They will come for you and then you’ll have no one to blame but yourself and counting on protection from known liars…. with the military backing it, obeying unjust/immoral orders just as it has done since inception.
October 3, 2017 @ 11:13 am
This isn’t a “gun” issue but a “person” issue. How do you stop crazy? How do you create a policy to measure crazy? You can pass all the laws you want but a mentally deranged person is going to find a way to hurt people. Whether it’s an airplane, truck, bomb, machete, ship, etc.. One door shuts and another one opens. Whack-a-mole.
Europe has the strictest gun laws. Great example. Crazy people still carry out mass murders over there.
-Snippet-
2004 Madrid, Spain: 201 dead, 1841 injured. Death by Train Bomb.
2005 London, England: 52 dead, 750 injured. Death by Train Bomb.
2017 Marseille, France: 2 dead. Death by Kitchen Knife.
2017 Nice, France: 86 dead, 202 injured. Death by Truck.
2017 Barcelona, Spain: 13 dead, 152 injured. Death by Mini Van.
October 3, 2017 @ 11:21 am
All those deaths added up don’t even come close the 11 k Americans murdered with guns so far this year.
October 3, 2017 @ 11:40 am
All those ‘gun related’ deaths (legal or not legal) doesn’t even add up close to the 27 million background checks in 2016 to purchase a fire arm.
October 3, 2017 @ 4:10 pm
And your numbers don’t even come close to the total number of defensive gun uses occurring annually. Anecdotally, both my fiancee and I used our firearms to protect ourselves or others this year, and most people we associate with have also had to defend themselves with a firearm. Total defensive gun uses are estimated at anywhere from 100,000 to over one million annually – the exact number is very hard to pin down because shots are rarely fired, and police reports are not normally filed.
October 3, 2017 @ 11:25 am
In fact more women, far more women, were shot to death in the US in a shorter period by ex romantic partners.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thetrace.org/2016/02/woman-shot-killed-frequency-domestic-violence/amp/
October 3, 2017 @ 11:54 am
What are you telling me? Men shouldn’t own guns but for women it’s okay? Since we’re throwing statistics around: In 2013, a black was six times more likely than a non-black to commit murder, and 12 times more likely to murder someone of another race than to be murdered by someone of another race. -The Color of Crime, 2016 Revised Edition
October 3, 2017 @ 12:12 pm
A black? What kind of racist ass nonsense is this? Men no matter what race are the ones murdering people en masse in the US. Dylann Roof. Adam Lanza. James Holmes. Jared Loughner. Eric Harris, Dylan Klebold, Stephen Paddock, those aren’t the names of ‘a black’ they are all white men.
What the hell does it matter anyway besides your racist agenda. HUMANS are dead and dying because of guns by huge numbers.
October 3, 2017 @ 1:27 pm
Nothing! That’s my point. I pulled up some random statistic on race and gun violence that has nothing to do with the tragic event that occurred in Las Vegas. Just as you pointed out some gender statistic with gun violence in accordance with your (I can do this too) gender oppressive, feminist, statist, sexist, bigot agenda.
What the hell does women statically more likely getting shot by their romantic partner have to do with the Las Vegas country concert attack? No correlation! Case closed. Goodbye!
October 3, 2017 @ 2:26 pm
The correlations is that you trying to using European terror statistics to show that gun violence in the US isn’t that bad when just women being killed by former partners WITH GUNS dwarfs any number you can throw out.
I would say Goodbye too after outing myself with that racist talk.
October 3, 2017 @ 3:55 pm
Statistics are not racist, they are merely statistics. The sad truth is that black Americans commit crimes at a vastly disproportionate rate. Try again.
October 3, 2017 @ 12:00 pm
This guy had a semi-automatic rifle that was modified with a bump stock to shoot like a fully automatic assault rifle. The legality of bump stock rifle modification is more of worthwhile discussion than just in general arguing for the elimination of guns.
October 3, 2017 @ 12:33 pm
No one is arguing for the entire “elimination of guns”! Only restrictions that would make it illegal for anyone to possess the weapons necessary to attack and kill dozens of people in minutes. I don’t think that violates your 2nd Amendment rights. But maybe I’m wrong and the Founding Fathers knew how the arms industry would evolve by the 21st Century. If you have any better policy ideas (because the mass shootings in this country obviously ARE a problem) then I’m all ears.
October 3, 2017 @ 1:21 pm
Fair enough…but we do actually have people and even elected representatives that believe private ownership of guns should be outlawed. THAT is horseshit. If anyone thinks I’m giving up the right to defend myself they can kiss my ass.
October 3, 2017 @ 1:55 pm
“No one is arguing for the entire “elimination of guns”!”
There are comments above discussing about our generous tolerance towards firearm ownership in the U.S. and comparing the U.S. to certain European countries where there is complete gun control. Strict firearm regulations have resulted in European countries that have very low gun ownership (more or less elimination) because of requirements such as you have to ‘have a good reason for ownership’ (Ireland) and self defense is not a valid reason (Netherlands). The general impression I got from reading certain comments above was that we need to do away with gun ownership because the constitution is an antiquated piece of document (treasonous).
October 3, 2017 @ 4:03 pm
In US v. Miller (1937), SCOTUS held that the Second Amendment protects the right of individuals to own weapons of contemporary military utility. The very definition of contemporary military utility at this time is a select-fire rifle chambered for a small-caliber, high-velocity cartridge and capable of accepting a detachable magazine.
I honestly do not believe that any law would have stopped this individual. Many others would have been stopped by a functional mental health system. A close friend of mine was nearly kidnapped by a mentally-ill individual; this was only prevented by several private citizens armed with the exact type of weapons I just described. Effective mental health treatment and institutions would prevent most spree killings. That said, it would not substantially reduce the homicide rate – that can only be accomplished by ending the culture of glamorized violence in the inner cities.
October 3, 2017 @ 6:28 pm
I think the right to self-defense is a perfectly reasonable one, and is also a valid reason to own and carry a gun if you are likely to need one to protect yourself or your loved ones. That said, it’s a shame that people feel so threatened in their lives that they do decide they need firearms for protection.
In the UK I’ve never felt threatened to the point that I need to carry a weapon on my person, and I’ve lived in some pretty rough (by our standards) areas. I have kept a baseball bat in the house in a couple of places but that’s about as far as it went, and was lucky enough to never need to use it. Are things really that bad in the States outside of the deprived and crime-ridden areas? That seems to me to be a great shame.
October 3, 2017 @ 6:38 pm
No, Joe, things aren’t that bad in the United States.
But a baseball bat doesn’t do as good a job at compensating for your insecurities.
October 3, 2017 @ 7:14 pm
But a baseball bat doesn’t do as good a job at compensating for your insecurities.
Ah, there it is!
http://blog.joehuffman.org/category/markley-s-law/
October 3, 2017 @ 7:19 pm
Cheers Lester, I kinda assumed they weren’t that bad as you are, after all, one of the most developed nations on earth. To my mind, people who need firearms for self-protection and subsistence are perfectly entitled to them.
Beyond that I’m slightly confused as to why anyone would want them. I an almost get my head around preserving freedoms in the face of a tyrannical government but realistically, if a government in control of a military as powerful as yours is really decides they want to take over then they will, armed populace or no.
Anyway, I’m probably digressing from the point of the article and am potentially on the verge of offending people here, which I have absolutely no desire to do, so apologies if anyone feels they’re necessary. I truly hope that country music will not forever be associated with mass shootings after this horrific incident, and feel that it won’t be. Peace, love, and a complete absence of unnecessary violence to you all.
October 4, 2017 @ 11:25 am
I really have no problem with people owning hunting rifles, shotguns and revolvers. It’s not that much different from being able to buy a crossbow in Elvery’s.
No one “needs” a semiautomatic weapon for hunting or self-defense, though.
It just makes them feel powerful.
October 4, 2017 @ 4:58 pm
Rebel Runner;
Las Vegas Strip shooter prescribed anti-anxiety drug in June
https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/the-strip/las-vegas-strip-shooter-prescribed-anti-anxiety-drug-in-june/
October 4, 2017 @ 8:43 am
Another thing I like to point out is that ‘gun violence’ statistics are too broad because very often suicides, justifiable homicide (Law enforcement shootings and self defense), and accidents are clumped in there which really skews the perception of how many people go out and commit the heinous crime of murder with a firearm.
October 3, 2017 @ 11:35 am
What did this contribute other than a forum for SCM readers to express empathy and debate solutions? These are not bad things … but maybe this is not the place?
October 3, 2017 @ 11:36 am
Also — and this does NOT compare with the tragedy this article addresses, but I must clarify — there is nothing wholesome about Chevy trucks
October 3, 2017 @ 2:46 pm
“Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”
http://thinkexist.com/quotation/those_who_desire_to_give_up_freedom_in_order_to/12888.html
October 3, 2017 @ 6:25 pm
has the media linked mass murder and country music forever in association? I think not, but Trig is posing the question.
there is no question the media (Dems in every count) are eager to exploit the event in one direction, and Reps (more defensively) in another
imo, weapon technologies aren’t even close to the fundamental causes: envy, pride, resentment, and supremacism
but we don’t know how, or we despair of having any effect, on those evils
so we talk about means, leaving the causes untouched
October 3, 2017 @ 7:28 pm
Maybe we should all just leave our doors unlocked and let you into our lives then, lovey lovey lorn.
October 4, 2017 @ 6:29 am
I tend to forget who I’m addressing and it could lead bad guys to ridiculously pointing their fingers at a
Good guys. . If God sets fire to a city does it make him bad? If a good cop shoots a criminal does it make him bad? The answer is always ‘no’, but you’ll argue something weird if you are attracted to negativity. You probably need a new family to love if you take things as far as to get rid of any of our rights as Americans.
October 3, 2017 @ 7:17 pm
Trigger,
I come here to avoid political discussions, because as a politically minded person, I get aggravated at the blizzard of stupidity that has swept this nation, and I tire of arguing with emotionally insane lunatics who conflate feelings with facts.
That’s why I hate when you get political. It forces me to engage, whether by reading or commenting, in something I come here specifically to get away from.
And you always say comments will be heavily moderated, but then it gets away from you, or you forget about it, and the comments section devolves quickly into what has occurred here. Still, here I am reading this crap.
Anyway, any chance you could stick to only music, permanently?
October 4, 2017 @ 12:59 am
Until you realize that that wasn’t country music but the system itself eating it’s own. BTW listen to the newest Walking the Floor podcast, Ray talks all about the system that allows only this type of “expression” to make the money.
October 4, 2017 @ 7:00 am
CountryCharm
October 3, 2017 @ 9:45 am
You do realize that you and the gun lobbyists are the ones coming for the Jews and the Trade Union workers right? Your gun lust and opposition to common sense gun laws is what’s exterminating Jews, children and now country music fans.
………
The ONLY lust I possess is that of liberty and freedom which trump ALL emotional outbreaks….and BTW, the poem is an allegorical effort hoping that you could see the connection from an historical perspective about your emotions wanting to infringe on the rights of others. Of course I suspect you know that but have to keep digging your hole deeper hoping you’ll come across as enlightened or some such nonsense.
It ain’t working.
October 4, 2017 @ 2:46 pm
Until you learn to discern your false emotional center from the true emotional center, you’ll just be shallow rhetoric. There’s something as manifest Destiny and Heaven’s Mandate — says that despite what you think is debatable, and subject to negotiation and within your construct of models and paradigms is really just your way of coning your superiors and it’s just your inferiority steering humanity off the secret course to extraterrestrial migration to the stars as part of the next phase of evolution.
October 4, 2017 @ 2:49 pm
(above meant for country charm)
October 4, 2017 @ 7:05 am
CountryCharm
October 3, 2017 @ 11:19 am
I also like the please muh freedoms! How are we free of we can’t even attend a country show without being murdered? Innocent people are losing their freedom and lives just so that gun nuts can run around playing G.I Joe.
…………
You can attend the same way you always have.
You’re semi-correct about people losing “freedom”……because emotions are trying to ensure it happens to others who had nothing to with the crime. The “feelings” of a few to trump the “rights” of the many, simply so you (and others) can “feel” better or safer.
To give up liberty for a little security you deserve, nor get, neither.
October 4, 2017 @ 2:39 pm
Cool Lester Smooth
October 4, 2017 @ 11:25 am
I really have no problem with people owning hunting rifles, shotguns and revolvers. It’s not that much different from being able to buy a crossbow in Elvery’s.
No one “needs” a semiautomatic weapon for hunting or self-defense, though.
It just makes them feel powerful.
………..
Needs: air, water, food, clothing, shelter.
Everything else is a want. You, nor anyone else has the authority, morally or legally, to tell others what choices he is to make.
That alone proves beyond doubt you don’t care about others freedoms you want to tell them, and have the fed gov’t back you, that they don’t have a choice. Very magnanimous of you.
October 4, 2017 @ 2:42 pm
Las Vegas Strip shooter prescribed anti-anxiety drug in June
https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/the-strip/las-vegas-strip-shooter-prescribed-anti-anxiety-drug-in-june/
October 4, 2017 @ 5:20 pm
Who knows better what the Second Amendment means than the Founding Fathers? Here are some powerful gun quotations from the Founding Fathers themselves.
“No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.”
– Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776
https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/gun-quotations-founding-fathers