Randy Travis Flipped When He Charted in Pop. “Get It Off There!”
Reading through the recently released biography of country Music Hall of Famer Randy Travis called Forever And Ever, Amen, Randy tells a story that really helps underscore how strange it is that so many non country artists in today’s monogenre environment feel like it’s their right or obligation to be considered on the country charts. Pop star Bebe Rexha’s song “Meant To Be” now holds the all time record of a whopping 50 weeks atop Billboard’s Hot Country Songs chart, while Lil Nas X’s expulsion from the country charts recently caused a huge stir.
But when it comes to many country artists, historically the last thing they want is their songs and records invading the charts of other genres. In fact, many go out of their way to avoid it, almost seeing it as a stigma. For example, some consider Carrie Underwood as the poster girl for a pop star in country these days, but throughout her career, she’s purposely avoided releasing pop versions of her songs, or specifically courting that side of the music sphere with her music.
“I’ve never been one for doing remixes,” Underwood told CMT a few years back. “Then I’ve gotta decide which version am I gonna be tonight: country Carrie or pop Carrie? I’d rather just make country music that anybody can get into no matter what they listen to … I’m not gonna try to make it something that it’s not. I’m not gonna think, ‘I need to “countrify” this by adding more fiddles and steel guitar.’ We do creatively what the song wants.”
That doesn’t mean Carrie’s songs haven’t found their way onto the pop charts in the past, because they have. But this is different from actively courting pop. When it came to Randy Travis, his take on the matter was even more severe. In 1988 when he released his third studio album Old 8 X 10, it immediately shot up the charts since he was the hottest thing in country at the time. The album sold through so well, it landed on the pop charts too.
“I was shocked to discover that my new album was #5 on Billboard’s Top 100 pop charts,” Travis says in the new biography. “The folks at Warner were celebrating, but I was irate. ‘Pop charts? What’s it doing on there? Get it off there,’ I said sternly. ‘I’m not a pop singer! I’m a country singer.’ “
Being told he landed on the pop charts is also about the only account in the book of the famously shy and soft spoken Randy Travis getting angry.
“Randy, they aren’t saying you are a pop artist,” said Janice Azrak, a Warner publicity representative who happened to be in the room. “They are saying your album is the #5 album in the USA in all genres,” to which Travis then responded, “Oh. Okay. I guess that’s all right then.”
Randy Travis also explains in the biography how he was rejected for years by Music Row’s record labels for being “too country.” He washed dishes and fried catfish at the Nashville Palace near the Opry, and moonlighted on the Nashville Palace stage until he received his big break. Randy’s neotraditional style is given credit for helping to turn country music around at the time, and set the table for country’s big commercial explosion in the early 90’s. Country found its footing by distinguishing itself from pop as opposed to chasing it. As Garth Brooks says on the cover of Randy’s new biography, “Randy Travis saved country music. I wouldn’t have had a career if it weren’t for him.”
A lot of pop music pundits like to profess that it’s a sum positive for country when pop or hip-hip stars land on the country charts, or get opportunities to perform on country tours and award shows. The idea is that it helps breathe relevancy into country music and keeps it fresh. But what they fail to understand is the only thing country music has ever desired to be is relevant to is itself. Unlike pop stars that aspire for world domination, country stars are just happy to serve the country music community they’re a part of. That doesn’t mean country can’t be enjoyed by everyone, or that country stars don’t want to expand their audience, or that collaborations across genre lines should be discouraged. But none of these things should be at the expense of country performers who show loyalty to the country format receiving the attention they deserve from the format’s institutions. Often cross genre collaborations simply promote the other side of the radio dial and erode distinctions between country and pop as opposed to keeping country “relevant.”
Of course there are exceptions to the rule of country stars not wanting to invade pop. Shania Twain notoriously released two versions of her 2002 album Up!—one country, and one pop. Taylor Swift also courted country and pop charts simultaneously during her early career as a “country” star, and Maren Morris recently had a massive pop hit with Zedd called “The Middle.” But even then important distinctions were made. Shania released two versions of her album for the purpose of not disrupting country radio with pop songs. When Taylor Swift officially made her move to pop, she made a point to declare it publicly, and refused to allow her label Big Machine to release songs to country, even though her label head Scott Borchetta requested she do so. And “The Middle” never made its way to country radio, even though it could have, and wouldn’t have sounded that far off from some of the “country” songs played on the radio today.
Many pop artists want to be included in country these days through collaborations or remixes to skim some of those fans off for themselves. But country music should be careful of continuing to allow this to happen. The music world was much better when pop was too sugary for country, and country was to corny for pop. There has always been pop influences in country, and country influences in pop. But when the dividing lines are more distinct, it offers more variety for consumers, instead of everything sounding the same no matter what genre it’s labeled, or where you are on the radio dial.
As Garth Brooks and many others will tell you, it was Randy Travis that was the catalyst to making country music relevant again. And he didn’t do it with pop. He did it by being more country than anyone else at the time, and filling an appetite forgotten by Nashville.
Luckyoldsun
May 28, 2019 @ 8:31 am
I wouldn’t expect a Randy Travis autobiography to be candid, and this is right in line with my expectations.
No artist who’s been clawing his way in Nashville for years to get a record deal and finally hits the big time is going to complain about his album appearing too HIGH! on the Billboard 200. And Randy, being something of an expert in country music would probably have known about Tennessee Ernie Ford and Jimmy Dean and Roger Miller and Johnny Cash and the success that they had had with various singles and albums on the general Billboard (and other services) charts.
Michelle
May 28, 2019 @ 9:36 am
Why wouldn’t you expect it to be candid?
Luckyoldsun
May 28, 2019 @ 4:25 pm
@Michelle–Randy Travis has never been candid about his personal life, going back to the very early ’90s, when he kept his marriage to Lib Hatcher a secret, and only revealed it as a direct response to a National Enquirer article saying that Travis was gay. He would tell these vague stories about having been a hellraiser as a youth, but nobody knew anything specific about that.
Travis’s career was badly damaged by the Enquirer incident and Hatcher secrecy, even if no-one admitted it.. None of his albums even hit the top 5 after ’93 and he stopped being an automatic add at radio.Was Travis’s near 20-year marriage to Hatcher genuine or was it purely business? Then, of course, there was the highly embarrassing arrest in 2012 with Travis intoxicated and unclothed in the road. What’s the surrounding story? And not long after that, the stroke. (Was that caused by intoxication? There’s a known connection.)
Travis has always been secretive about his personal life (understandably). When I heard that he had written his autobiography, I figured that the odds that he’ll really reveal himself were about zero.
Nonsensical stories like that Travis was “irate” that his album was a broad national hit and that he thought that being on the Billboard 200 means you’re not country are just what I would have expected from his autobiography.
Trigger
May 28, 2019 @ 5:37 pm
Luckyoldsun,
I am most of my way through the new biography, and I can tell you first hand that Randy Travis is completely open and candid about his youth, about his relationship with Lib, including sleeping with her while she was still married, and other candid details that he has been shy revealing in the past. I had the same concern, if this book would just be a puff piece on Travis, and if it would be told mostly through other people’s words, and it’s anything but.
Also, I don’t think Randy Travis is making up the story about charting on the pop charts at all. Staying country is one of the big themes through the book, and seeing how he named other people involved in the story, it wouldn’t behoove him to lie. I just think he was still a bit of a green country boy at the time, and really was insulted to have his album on the pop charts until it was explained to him.
Luckyoldsun
May 28, 2019 @ 5:51 pm
OK, I’ve been surprised before. I don’t mind being surprised again, if this is a revealing book.
Trigger
May 28, 2019 @ 6:00 pm
I’ll have a review posted soon.
marc
May 28, 2019 @ 6:25 pm
I haven’t read the book but the comment about pop charts is something I heard Randy talk about a couple of decades ago. I look forward to your review.
Luckyoldsun
May 28, 2019 @ 8:32 pm
“’I was shocked to discover that my new album [“Old 8 x 10″] was #5 on Billboard’s Top 100 pop charts,’ Travis says.”
..
Just for the hell of it, I went and looked it up, and the highest position that Travis’s album “Old 8 x10” reached on the Billboard 200 album chart was #35. That’s after “Always and Forever,” which contained the breakthrough single “Forever and Ever, Amen” had reached as high as #19. So the story is nonsense, anyway. Now, one should blame the actual writer of the book, Ken Abraham, and the editor, for that. Only a fool would take any artist’s word for 25-year-old recollections of easily checkable events without at least verifying it before putting it down in a book.
Trigger
May 28, 2019 @ 9:13 pm
The Billboard Top 100 Pop Chart and the Billboard 200 are two separate charts. The Billboard 200 includes ALL albums regardless of genre or dates of release. This would include backlist titles, heavy metal, jazz, classical, Christian, etc. The Top 100 Pop Chart is whatever the chart managers deem as “pop” at that time, meaning “popular” music. If “Old 8 x 10” went #1 in country and double platinum, I would expect for it to show up at #5 or so on the pop charts. Also remember album releases and charts were WAY different back then. Very few albums debuted at #1. They usually took months to reach their top chart spot, while today everything usually debuts at the top spot and then falls. The charts were different as well, and tabulated with completely different methods, a.k.a. the “Pre SoundScan era.” I’d have to do some digging and research to determine what exact chart was being referenced there, and whop knows, maybe the numbers are off in one direction or another, or he cites the wrong chart name. But I have no reason to doubt the story.
Luckyoldsun
May 28, 2019 @ 9:45 pm
The Top 100 pop chart–actually the Hot 100–is a singles chart. Randy didn’t need to worry about his singles charting pop. He never had a Top-40 single on the Hot 100 until “Three Wooden Crosses,” and that was all based on country airplay, anyway.
“Old 8 x 10” charted no higher than #35 on the Billboard all-albums chart.
Trigger
May 28, 2019 @ 11:42 pm
He didn’t say The Billboard Hot 100 either. In fact he specifically said it was an album that charted, not a song. In 1988, there was an entirely different set of charts that Billboard used to break down albums and songs. In 1988, there was a Billboard chart called the “Hot Black Songs” chart. Can you imagine a “Hot Black Songs” chart in 2019? Also in 1988, the Billboard 200 didn’t exist in its present form. Perhaps instead of #5, it was #35. Perhaps it wasn’t a Billboard chart at all they were referring to. Again, to determine the specifics here some research would need to be done, and a more specific determination of what chart he is referring to would be necessary. There’s a chance he’s completely wrong about the chart placement, or the chart. But he didn’t say the Billboard 200 or the Hot 100, and even if he got the chart or the placement wrong doesn’t mean it’s a fictitious story, it may mean he just got some details wrong, which happens, especially when you suffered things such as a massive stroke.
Sandra
June 4, 2019 @ 5:26 am
I love his music. All of his songs should be number 1
Garrett
May 28, 2019 @ 8:54 am
Yeah, at the end of the day, it should all come down to how good the music is. If it so happens that great country music crosses over to the pop charts, then more power to him. I understand the stigma, but no one should dread more chart success, which Travis didn’t as soon as the situation was cleared up for him.
Richard Charlton
May 28, 2019 @ 9:12 am
But it’s not country music any more.why do they still call it country and except awards for country music when they don’t sing country .CMA SHOULD BE CHANGED TO THE NCM AWARDS WHICH STANDS FOR NOT COUNTRY MUSIC
CeeCeeBee
May 28, 2019 @ 10:27 am
Just out of curiosity, were you okay in the 70s and 80s when Kenny Rogers was being awarded for singing Lionel Richie? Or when Crystal Gayle won country accolades for “Don’t It Make My Brown Eyes Blue?” Or when Barbara Mandrell charted on the R&B charts and swept CMA and ACM awards? Or when Ronnie Milsap soared up the charts with “Stranger in My House” and was the darling of the CMAs? How about when Dolly Parton had crossover success with “9 to 5” and “Real Love?”
My point is I am not so sure pop “crossovers” are the problem. I think the problem these days is just that the mainstream music isn’t just poppy, it’s also crappy.
wayne
May 28, 2019 @ 7:50 pm
No. As a matter of fact, I hated every one of the songs you mentioned. Still do.
CeeCeeBee
May 28, 2019 @ 7:57 pm
Whelp. Good for you? Do you deny the greatness of those artists (who all save Gayle are in the Country Music Hall of Fame)?
Before you answer, I suggest you listen to their entire catalog.
wayne
May 28, 2019 @ 8:00 pm
Nope. They were great. I just didn’t like the songs you listed.
James Williams
May 29, 2019 @ 8:43 pm
How about Jim Reeves and Eddy Arnold, who had strings in their records? How about Ray Price circa 1970?
Your loss when it comes to not liking the songs from Milsap, Gayle, etc.
wayne
May 29, 2019 @ 8:48 pm
Not a loss for me. I like what I like. Yes, Reeves and Arnold were super-great, but I never liked the Nashville sound and the strings. Man, Ray Price could sing the phone book, but I was not a fan of the “Nashville Sound” Ray Price.
Nothing to do with their talent. Glad they had an audience for that type of music. Just not for me. It is not a loss for me when I hear any song and decide that it isn’t pleasant to my eyes. And my ears are the only ones I listen with.
Marie
May 28, 2019 @ 9:45 am
I know for fact that Randy Travis is a country-and-western singer
James Williams
May 29, 2019 @ 2:01 pm
How about Jim Reeves and Eddy Arnold, who had strings in their records? How about Ray Price circa 1970?
Your loss when it comes to not liking the songs from Milsap, Gayle, etc.
James Williams
May 29, 2019 @ 8:42 pm
sorry, I replied to the wrong comment
Sharon Bell
May 28, 2019 @ 9:55 am
Love you for standing firm as country TRUE COUNTRY
CeeCeeBee
May 28, 2019 @ 10:13 am
When Randy first came along, there were a slew of country artists (including some who are now revered as COUNTRY legends) who were trending toward a more “pop” sound and charting on AC/pop charts (Milsap, Rogers, Mandrell, Gayle, Parton to name a few). Randy, along with Jackson, Black, Yoakam, Tritt, etc pushed country back to a more purest sound. Given the climate in Nashville at the time, I completely understand why Randy would be uncomfortable charting anywhere but country. The backlash against “country goes pop” was pretty severe.
OlaR
May 28, 2019 @ 10:17 am
What a headline: Sam Hunt flipped when he charted in country.
MCA Nashville was throwing a big ol party but Sam Hunt was unhappy. Country Charts? I’m a d-list pop singer. I’m not a hillbilly singer.
A MCA Nashville executive told him…Sam…baby…Billboard allows edm-pop-rap on the country charts. It’s extra cash for you & the label. Money…baby…money. Next week the Opry & one of the country award shows. You will win an award baby. A fuc**** country award. We paid for the award…I mean…we worked hard for it.
Sam Hunt responded…ok…money is good. I’m a hillbilly singer now but what the f*** is the Opry?
Now i will listen to “Diggin’ Up Bones”.
Brian Allen
May 28, 2019 @ 12:22 pm
Pop country, snap country, and all this other bs commercialized music that people keep adding “country” to at the end is ridiculous and belongs on pop stations. Bring back the old school sound and the ones who strive to keep traditional country music alive
King Honky Of Crackershire
May 28, 2019 @ 12:24 pm
….”For example, some consider Carrie Underwood as the poster girl for a pop star in country these days, but throughout her career, she’s purposely avoided releasing pop versions of her songs”….
In reality the opposite is true. She has purposely avoided releasing country versions of her songs. The versions she’s released are the pop versions.
CeeCeeBee
May 28, 2019 @ 2:03 pm
In general, I think Underwood gets a bad rap. It’s true there is nothing “pure” or traditionalist about her music, but she has stayed in the country lane when it comes to her fans and her support of country music in general. She is one of the few mainstream country acts that actually bothers to fulfill her obligation to the Opry. She also has gone out of her way to highlight and honor those who came before her (Randy Travis foe instance, and she frequently covers Loretta and Tammy).
Yes, her music is too pop for me, but O refuse to lump her in with the other crapsters dominating music today.
Honestly, the beauty of her voice is sometimes enough to make me listen to one of her songs when it comes on the radio, pop or not.
Keepin it Country
May 28, 2019 @ 3:18 pm
The country mainstream is starting to lean more country . It wasn’t overnight Willie, Merle, and waylon dominated the charts. The same thing on the 90’s it took time for radio to realize country’s value. Now we’re starting to get more such as Midland, Jon Pardi, Chris Stapleton,Cody Johnson and maybe Kacey Musgraves (Not sure on this one yet)
Trigger
May 28, 2019 @ 5:41 pm
I agree, we’re starting to see a country resurgence brewing. I think it’s slower than country’s past revolutions which is the reason some are doubting that. But I definitely think it’s happening.
Erik North
May 28, 2019 @ 7:30 pm
I think people want it to come faster is because we’re still dealing, however minimally it is now, with what is left over from Bro-Country, which, in my opinion, was presaged in the Muzik Mafia craze of 2004, and the schlock and the toxic sludge is still there.
At the same time, however, and I’m going to keep saying this, the pop/country controversy is something Nashville has been dealing with in one form or another ever since the first onslaught of rock and roll in the early-to-mid 1950s, where country and R&B got together as the result of, among others, Elvis. The genie’s out of the bottle, so to speak, and there is absolutely no way of putting it back, ever. It doesn’t matter whether it is Nashville Sound of the early 1960s; the nakedly pop Nashville stuff of the 80s; the hippie country-rock of the 1970s; Taylor Swift; or anything else. It’s a done deal. The real question that people should, I think, be asking, is how everyone in the industry–the artists themselves; the record chieftains; the radio stations–can balance the genre’s traditions, stay true to them, and at the same time make those traditions relevant for today’s audiences. Such a balance has been achieved before. and it can be done again (IMHO).
DJ
May 28, 2019 @ 3:45 pm
“A lot of pop music pundits like to profess”- period.
J Burke
May 28, 2019 @ 5:15 pm
There are only a few country albums as good as “Storms of Life”. Title song is my favorite RT song.
jimincincy
May 29, 2019 @ 10:51 am
I agree completely! I am a Keith Whitley fanatic, but I put Storms of Life on an equal level with Keith’s last two albums. My top three of all time. I am still amazed that Kyle Lehning produced the album knowing very little about country music.(Keith Stegal also helped produce two songs)
Dolores J. Sone
May 28, 2019 @ 5:19 pm
Country music hasnt been country in years, Randy Travis is & was probably the last true country singer there was other than Willie Nelson of course…..
Like for instant, Keith Urban is definitely not country….I stopped watching the CMA Awards….
But its ok because I dont spend money on CDs anymore……and I have a great collection of true Country Music.
JB-Chicago
May 28, 2019 @ 6:50 pm
Please don’t say “anymore” Dolores. This site is the reason you SHOULD buy CD’s of everything and anything that is true modern authentic Country Trig and everyone else turns us onto on here. The amount of albums (CD’s) I’ve bought as (well as concert tickets) has grown dramatically since I found this site 3 or 4 years ago. It’s cool you have an incredible old collection but our new/current hero’s (and there are many) need support from you as well.
Moe
May 29, 2019 @ 5:34 am
Agreed JB there is still alot of great country music being released. It just isn’t being played on mainstream Country stations. Thankfully the internet makes it relatively easy to find. You may have to dig a bit but it is well worth it.
Moe
May 29, 2019 @ 5:42 am
As a matter of fact i came across 3 new albums this week that feature some great Country music:
Dustin Sonnier ‘Between the Stones & Jones’
Richard Lynch “Think I’ll Carry It On”
Tommy Lee Moffat “I’m Country”
Sam Cody
May 28, 2019 @ 10:02 pm
Wait. What? Where can I find this country music by Carrie Underwood? …you’ve gotta be kidding me with that crap…
Trigger
May 28, 2019 @ 11:45 pm
The point of the Carrie Underwood reference was not to say that she makes country music. In fact it was the opposite. It was to say that even someone who symbolizes one of the most pop extremes in the genre still sees the value of not courting pop markets at the same time as country because it is confusing and disrespectful. Of course Carrie Underwood is mostly pop. That goes without saying.
Dave
May 29, 2019 @ 6:03 am
I think Carrie recognises – or her people have told her – that a wholesome image, a pretty face and a good voice works better in country than in modern pop. The latter means she would have to be Miley or Katy Perry and more overtly sexy while releasing dance-pop like ‘Last Friday Night’ or ‘Can’t Be Tamed’, with their hedonistic lyrics. Instead, ‘Last Name’ is as far as Carrie will go (‘Somethin’ Bad’ flopped), and we get ‘Mama’s Song’, ‘Something in the Water’ and ‘Love Wins’.
CeeCeeBee
May 29, 2019 @ 8:17 am
Somethin’ Bad actually went to #1, so not sure how that’s a “flop.”
LukeBryanSucks
May 29, 2019 @ 3:40 pm
I still wonder how that happened too. That song was garbage.
Dave
May 29, 2019 @ 3:58 pm
My bad, I thought it flopped.
Dawg Fan
May 29, 2019 @ 6:21 am
Sorry but I’m not buying that.
Jeremy Prather
May 29, 2019 @ 7:17 am
Justin M. Says to just “Hank It”! That’s what everybody needs to do!
Blockman
May 29, 2019 @ 12:53 pm
Why can’t nothing in the last time compare to that tune One in a Row? Is it the singers? Writers? Producers? The industry? It’s solid gold for even Randy’s standards. Goddamn what a tune.
rideus
May 29, 2019 @ 12:59 pm
I believe Storms of Life was the first debut album by a country artist to sell 1 million…….
James Williams
May 29, 2019 @ 1:59 pm
While I understand the resistance to letting pop sounds into country songs, the truth is that it’s unavoidable, and it has been for 70 years. Ray Price, Eddy Arnold, and Jim Reeves were denounced by some for including strings in their songs, but pretty much all country fans consider them to be authentic country artists now, in hindsight.
By the way, I heard this story about Travis saying “get me off that thing” when he found his album was charting on the top 200, many years ago. I’m quite sure it’s a true story.
Batterycap
May 29, 2019 @ 4:09 pm
The mid 80’s were a trying time for country. Names I revere today were a bit stick in a rut. Conway was getting some flack for trying to countrify “Slow Hand”, although he did a good job of it. It was more of the same, mixed in with a lot of good, such as “You’re The Reason God Made Oklahoma”. One could go on for awhile.
When Randy came onto the scene, it was if somebody found the country road-map and led everyone back to the main country highway. I recall riding to an appointment with a female colleague that I would never have guessed was a country fan. She pushed in a Randy Travis cassette, and I knew I had a new friend.
MidwestPatriot
May 29, 2019 @ 8:59 pm
Randy Travis was more country than anyone else at the time? Wasn’t George Strait already popular before Randy Travis came around?
WILLIAM HUNTER
May 31, 2019 @ 2:14 am
I recall the first time I heard Randy Travis on the radio here in the UK. He made sit up and listen. Great voice and wonderful songs. Storms of Life, On the Other hand, Diggin’ Up Bones…..His Storms of Life album remains one of my all time favourites. One of the true country greats and it is great to hear a new single from him.
Matt Jamison
May 31, 2019 @ 10:28 am
Honest question: Do you think Randy Travis was a more important catalyst to Garth and the 90s than George Strait?
Trigger
May 31, 2019 @ 11:03 am
I do. That’s to take nothing away from George Strait, but the way his career worked was to be steady and consistent. Randy Travis was the country music version of an overnight sensation. He had big songs that pop and rock fans enjoyed, and played to arenas, setting the table for Garth and others.